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Old 07-27-2013, 02:50 AM
 
10,337 posts, read 11,339,389 times
Reputation: 7699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
With his fundraising ability, Kasim Reed could likely make a statewide race much more interesting and entertaining than Republicans would like it to be, but just Reed's mere presence in a statewide general election contest (and the record turnout that it would inspire from conservatives) would likely be too much for Reed to overcome in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Rather than phrase this as a political ideology issue, which it is, you needlessly throw race into the discussion.

Using race as a crutch is pathetic tactic of the weak minded.
...You do know that the word "race" (as in statewide race..."statewide general election contest") describes a political contest and not the color of one's skin in that sentence, don't you?

And I did not "needlessly throw race into the discussion"...this is Georgia and, of course, in Georgia (particularly with her history of tense race relations) race is the 800-pound elephant in the room that is always lurking very close nearby in the background waiting to rear its ugly head in one form or another.

You are very correct that this is a political ideology issue, but because of Reed's skin color, and the post-Civil Rights racial history of the municipality that he hails from (the City of Atlanta, a city whose last five mayors have been urban black liberals as a result of white flight, and a city that has been dominated by black voters for the last 40 years that has at times had very-tense and strained relations with a state government dominated by rural and suburban white conservatives) and the racial history of the state that he seemingly wants to represent (a state that has never had a black Governor or black U.S. Senator) race is also an undeniable part of the political equation when it comes to Kasim Reed, a prominent black urban liberal with aspirations for higher office in a state dominated by white suburban, exurban and rural conservatives.

It's not necessarily a negative commentary that race happens to be apart of the equation, as people often vote for whom they can most readily personally identify with.

In a state that has traditionally been numerically dominated by white rural, exurban and suburban conservatives, white conservatives are and have been the most likely to be elected to office because that is who most of the population identifies with personally.

Just like black urban liberals have been the most likely to be elected to office within the City of Atlanta since the '70's because that is who most of the population there identifies with personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah View Post
True but lets not forget that his biggest achievement to date has been turning around the city fiscally and fighting the unions to do so, which may garner the support of many fiscal conservatives.
That is a good point.

But Kasim Reed's history as a very visible and very vocal spokesperson for the Obama Administration (intensely-hated outside of I-285), as well as Reed's history as the lead spokesperson and the very public and highly visible face of the very unpopular T-SPLOST referendum (one of the largest tax increase and government expansion proposals in the history of a state with a very-strong tradition of tax increase and government expansion-averse politics...a referendum that the overwhelming majority of voters outside of the City of Atlanta perceived to be only for the benefit of the City of Atlanta at the expense of residents in the rest of the region) will most likely work heavily against the polarizing Reed in a general election matchup against what will likely be a well-liked, very-popular, abundantly well-funded and extremely powerful Republican candidate in Lt. Governor Casey Cagle.

Cagle has committed some conservative heresies of his own in backing the commissioning of a failed trauma care tax referendum in 2010, a tax referendum that set off a 2-year-long political coup and Cagle led by former Senator Majority Leader Chip Rogers of gambling tout and GPB fame that sent the Georgia Senate into a tailspin for 2 years and nearly cost Cagle his political career.

But the irony is that Cagle came out of the political coup episode even more popular and politically stronger than he was before.

Fiscal conservatives will go for the well-liked and popular Casey Cagle much more readily than they would ever go for Kasim Reed who, like his home city, is an extremely-polarizing figure outside of the City of Atlanta...the further away from the City of Atlanta one gets, the more polarizing, unpopular and even hated Reed becomes with the voting populace.

In a general election matchup with a politician as popular as Cagle is in statewide politics, it is highly-doubtful that Kasim Reed could ever turnout as many voters who love him as Reed will most assuredly turnout voters who hate him and love Cagle.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:03 AM
 
6,253 posts, read 11,830,238 times
Reputation: 5060
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
Now that is something I can get behind! Privately funded public transport... nice!

Of course, will this really be public transport, or will this be a used solely for Braves attendees? It would be great if something like this could be extended to provide additional stops, to Grant Park and the Zoo ended around the Beltline would be fantastic, but that would likely fall well outside of the model they are looking at.

IF this becomes reality, I predict it will be a system only running on game days. Or maybe this could turn into Atlanta's first foray into public private parternerships for public transit? I sure hope its the latter.
Me too. I've been saying that for years. The Beltline I believe will also be built on P3. Commuter lines to Cobb and Gwinett should be built that way too. Hopefully people figured out by now that most people in Metro Atlanta don't want the funding coming out of their tax dollars.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:27 AM
 
10,337 posts, read 11,339,389 times
Reputation: 7699
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
Me too. I've been saying that for years. The Beltline I believe will also be built on P3. Commuter lines to Cobb and Gwinett should be built that way too. Hopefully people figured out by now that most people in Metro Atlanta don't want the funding coming out of their tax dollars.
...Good ideas and excellent points.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:43 PM
 
924 posts, read 1,449,193 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
I think this is the same guy who proposed a personal transit system in Fayetteville. This would certainly be a more logical application, but I wonder if it would be worth it. An additional transfer makes it not much better than a bus. And looking at the tracks in the background of the picture, I imagine it would be kind of an eyesore.

In theory, I like the idea of a streetcar serving Turner Field and points beyond, but does that have enough capacity and grade separation to have an advantage over the buses that are currently running?
It would still be better than the bus because you wouldn't have to walk all the way through Underground like you do for the Braves shuttle now. I don't think a streetcar is any better though because of the limited capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
I'm with you. I'd much rather see us add another planned streetcar line. It could serve neighborhoods instead of just a stadium. I think the same thing could be done if the Falcons go with the north site. I think we should use this as an opportunity to build transit that serves people in several neighborhoods and is useful 365 days a year.
Streetcars don't have enough capacity for major events with this many people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
I'd like to see the proposed costs, but I'd much rather spend the money in any other number of ways. A couple better uses of money include extending MARTA HRT up Georgia 400, or just relocating the stadium to the current Dome site.

I understand this line will extend from Georgia State Station to Turner? That's very suboptimal. A slight improvement at best over the status quo. A single transfer to a bus vs a double transfer to a Maglev is basically a wash to me. For East-West line folks it would be an improvement, granted.

You've also got a rolling stock problem with this or a streetcar. To support any proposed development imaginable down at Turner, you're going to need very modest capacity. but the stadium itself after a ballgame puts many thousands of fans straight into the system. In this sense, buses actually work pretty well: you can just queue up a bunch of buses for the 81 times a year this happens and be done with it. But designing a fixed rail system around this situation would increase the costs of the line dramatically.

I've ridden Maglev in Shanghai and it's cool and all, but even in transit-hungry China it's regarded as a white elephant. They are investing massively in the subway system (to the tune of a dozen new stations a year), but they still don't seem serious about finishing the Maglev system that's only half-built.
The single transfer to the bus isn't all that short/simple though.
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:09 PM
 
924 posts, read 1,449,193 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Well, $30M per mile is kind of high, but not entirely unexpected. Given that the two(?) stations are close together, that inflates the per mile cost a bit since no existing infrastructure can be used unlike light rail. I really hope they don't begin construction until the Falcons boondoggle settles out. Hopefully, the $200M waste will be put on the November ballot, and once that's derailed, serious talks can begin about moving the Braves in closer to downtown, which would abrogate the need for this maglev line. I figure eventually, we'll get the streetcar down toward the Turner Field and Grant Park area, something like in my map here: http://goo.gl/maps/ipNUq
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN SO STOP SAYING IT IN EVERY THREAD!

If it were to happen the Falcons would head to the suburbs faster than you can blink.

How much money do you think the city would have to spend to build the Braves a new stadium(which is already newer than the Georgia Dome you don't want replaced)? I guarantee it would be more than $200 million.
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
7,343 posts, read 6,477,294 times
Reputation: 5142
If a Turner Field light rail station is designed right, you can also just queue up the trains. Park them on a "pocket track" in between the tracks so you can keep some measure of regular service away from Atlanta. But ideally, with any system, you never need to queue up vehicles, you have one arriving, just before or just after one leaves so your vehicles are always in motion, they're never just idle. On the current HRT schedule, MARTA actually does this on the Blue Line at Indian Creek. The inbound train usually passes the next outbound train near Kensington, the next stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westau View Post
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN SO STOP SAYING IT IN EVERY THREAD!
I'll stop saying it when it either happens, there's no chance of it happening (not past the point of no return yet), or the staff tells me to.
Quote:
If it were to happen the Falcons would head to the suburbs faster than you can blink.
Good, they don't want to play nicely with public money, then they can do whatever they want with private money.
Quote:
How much money do you think the city would have to spend to build the Braves a new stadium(which is already newer than the Georgia Dome you don't want replaced)? I guarantee it would be more than $200 million.
Nope, the original Turner Field was built for about $300M (adjusted for inflation). So factoring in public money, plus some from the Braves themselves, it would probably actually cost the taxpayers far less, while producing far greater benefits, the connection to MARTA being only one of many benefits.
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:43 PM
 
16,634 posts, read 29,319,383 times
Reputation: 7555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
...You do know that the word "race" (as in statewide race..."statewide general election contest") describes a political contest and not the color of one's skin in that sentence, don't you?

And I did not "needlessly throw race into the discussion"...this is Georgia and, of course, in Georgia (particularly with her history of tense race relations) race is the 800-pound elephant in the room that is always lurking very close nearby in the background waiting to rear its ugly head in one form or another.

You are very correct that this is a political ideology issue, but because of Reed's skin color, and the post-Civil Rights racial history of the municipality that he hails from (the City of Atlanta, a city whose last five mayors have been urban black liberals as a result of white flight, and a city that has been dominated by black voters for the last 40 years that has at times had very-tense and strained relations with a state government dominated by rural and suburban white conservatives) and the racial history of the state that he seemingly wants to represent (a state that has never had a black Governor or black U.S. Senator) race is also an undeniable part of the political equation when it comes to Kasim Reed, a prominent black urban liberal with aspirations for higher office in a state dominated by white suburban, exurban and rural conservatives.

It's not necessarily a negative commentary that race happens to be apart of the equation, as people often vote for whom they can most readily personally identify with.

In a state that has traditionally been numerically dominated by white rural, exurban and suburban conservatives, white conservatives are and have been the most likely to be elected to office because that is who most of the population identifies with personally.

Just like black urban liberals have been the most likely to be elected to office within the City of Atlanta since the '70's because that is who most of the population there identifies with personally.


...

Amen.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Castleberry Hill
104 posts, read 141,129 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
I'll stop saying it when it either happens, there's no chance of it happening (not past the point of no return yet), or the staff tells me to.

Good, they don't want to play nicely with public money, then they can do whatever they want with private money.
Hear hear!

I've noticed on message boards across the internet that stadium supporters love to tell other people to shut up. It's not enough to get ~$940,000,000 in public money over the lifetime of the stadium, they need outside validation that what they're supporting is right because they know the entire thing is ludicrous. They spread lies about the age of the church ("seriously dude, it was built in the 1960s"), about the amount of public money going into it ("it's only $200 million"), about the "economic development" ("studies by the NFL say that the NFL creates lots of money when the NFL is given money for the NFL"), about just about everything else ("they'll move to LA","the city will die without a team", "we'll get the World Cup", "The Georgia Dome will cost $500,000,000 to keep current"). If they'd just say "I really love football" or "I really love shiny new buildings" it wouldn't be so bad. But they know they're on the wrong side of history. In the end I'm sure they'll win. Money wins above all else. But it'll be a cold day in hell before I'll lay down and tell them what they're supporting is good. They'll get their stadium but they'll never ever get validation that they're on the right side of history. They'll never be able to say "everyone supported it" as an excuse to future generations.

Sorry westau, if you want people to not be critical of the obvious corruption and blatant hypocrisy then you can start up your own message board and censor all messages that don't agree with you. Twenty years from now you'll be just like all those people who supported segregation who suddenly forgot they ever were in favor of it. You'll sit around and tell all your friends about how horrible it is that Atlanta doesn't preserve its history and that you were never in support of this terrible misuse of public funds. You might even tell the lie enough to convince yourself. None of that will change the fact that Friendship Baptist will be wiped off the face of the earth and that over half a billion in current dollars of public money will be given to Arthur Blank for this monument to his ego.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:26 AM
 
2,685 posts, read 6,026,572 times
Reputation: 952
Yes baseball stadiums are cheaper - probably $600 million would do the job based on recent stadium costs but baseball doesn't generally throw in so much league money like the NFL does. of that $600 million the city/state would have to kick in a lot more than the 20% they are for the falcons stadium. In comparison to other cities they got a screaming deal. The new arena they are trying to build in Seattle will cost the city more like 50% of the total cost. The new Miami baseball stadium - of the $600 million total the team paid $120 million, just about opposite of the falcons deal and they didn't even get a competitive team out of the deal. The rest was all public money.

Ballpark & Stadium Comparisons - Cost, Ballparks of Baseball

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post

Nope, the original Turner Field was built for about $300M (adjusted for inflation). So factoring in public money, plus some from the Braves themselves, it would probably actually cost the taxpayers far less, while producing far greater benefits, the connection to MARTA being only one of many benefits.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Atlanta's Castleberry Hill
4,761 posts, read 5,392,081 times
Reputation: 5131
What would happen with the trains when the Braves season is over. That's at least 7 months of the train being idle.
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