Thugs in Atlanta? Bad parenting, bad politics, what? (crime rate, how much)

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by DoveDiva

In response to what you said about living in West Virginia...I think there's a difference between being poor in the country and being poor in the city. In the country, there are less things to get caught up in vs. the city.

I should have pointed out that it's a stereotype that *all* of West Virginia is "country". I was talking about Charleston where I grew up - the Capital city. 55,000 people in the city and 250,000 metro.

City data photo: Charleston, WV : Charleston skyline as seen from the other side of the Kanawha River photo

So the problems I was talking about that we did not have just because we lived in poverty... that WAS "city living".

[Galounger]

Originally Posted by kayrob

MTV is run by Blacks? Seems a bit of a stretch. I remember when they first started out and said they didn't play videos by Black artists because they were a rock format channel.

For a long time Michael Jackson was about the only black artist you saw on MTV. (Insert your MJ joke now)

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by Galounger

For a long time Michael Jackson was about the only black artist you saw on MTV. (Insert your MJ joke now)

Michael Jackson is black?????

[crystalblue]

part of the problem that I see is this whole "stop-snitchin' idea.

if you see a criminal performing an action, you should call it in. if your afraid of being singled out, the cops should give people cameras that they can use to film things from thier homes.

you also have to be willing to lock people up for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time.

murder someone? your gone for life, no parole, end of story.
rape? 50 yrs, no parole
selling drugs, robbery, 30-40 yrs, no parole, etc...


make the penalty so harsh they dont want to do the crime. then, dont let them out.

[backfist]

Again, are we talking about lawlessness in general, are we focusing specifically on Black lawlessness? I'm just askin'.

[otoatlanta]

Interesting about the punishments and laws thing. My understanding is that the US already has some of the most strict laws in the developed world, but yet we still have some of the highest rates of crime in the developed world as well.

In addition, US states with the most punitive methods of treating criminals continue to have the worst crime. I know that there are studies to the contrary, but my point is, there is little that is conclusive. To me, punishment can't possibly lead to a better world or city. It just doesn't make sense. Punishment is more or less like sweeping dust under a rug and calling it house cleaning. It may make the problem "seem" to go away, but it only buries it underground, where it festers dangerously out of sight.

I would also making a sweeping generalization that low income blacks are more punitive with their children than most anyone else. Following the punishment theory, shouldn't it follow that they would be the most well socialized?

[nrgpill]

You're probably right in that punishment isn't the most effective method. However, I can also argue that peace between nations is only possible due to the fear of 'assured destruction'. Fear is rarely the best method but it is often the only method we pay attention to. Also, fear tactic can only prevent certain actions to a degree but rarely does it empower anyone. I would say being well socialized is mutually exclusive in this example.

Originally Posted by otoatlanta

Interesting about the punishments and laws thing. My understanding is that the US already has some of the most strict laws in the developed world, but yet we still have some of the highest rates of crime in the developed world as well.


In addition, US states with the most punitive methods of treating criminals continue to have the worst crime. I know that there are studies to the contrary, but my point is, there is little that is conclusive. To me, punishment can't possibly lead to a better world or city. It just doesn't make sense. Punishment is more or less like sweeping dust under a rug and calling it house cleaning. It may make the problem "seem" to go away, but it only buries it underground, where it festers dangerously out of sight.

I would also making a sweeping generalization that low income blacks are more punitive with their children than most anyone else. Following the punishment theory, shouldn't it follow that they would be the most well socialized?

[backfist]

To me, punishment can't possibly lead to a better world or city. It just doesn't make sense. Punishment is more or less like sweeping dust under a rug and calling it house cleaning. It may make the problem "seem" to go away, but it only buries it underground, where it festers dangerously out of sight.

True. Punishment for societal pleasure doesn't necessarily solve the problem of chronic lawlessness in the city of Atlanta. A hardened criminal who gets convicted and locked up for felony assault isn't going to learn how wrong his actions were; how they adversely impacted a peaceful society. He's not going to be rehabilitated. He's going to be warehoused for a year or two ... and then he's going to be released, and society likely won't be the better for it.

Atlanta/the State of Georgia are really going to have to make their approach to street crime more comprehensive and balanced. Want to get tough and issue lengthy sentences? Fine. But those guys have to be that much more prepared for re-entry into society. Otherwise, we're fooling ourselves.

[otoatlanta]

Originally Posted by nrgpill

You're probably right in that punishment isn't the most effective method. However, I can also argue that peace between nations is only possible due to the fear of 'assured destruction'. Fear is rarely the best method but it is often the only method we pay attention to. Also, fear tactic can only prevent certain actions to a degree but rarely does it empower anyone. I would say being well socialized is mutually exclusive in this example.

Hmm. I don't think assured destruction does anything for any nation or individual except for perpetuate paranoia and warfare. There is a quote, "So long as war is profitable, there will never be peace." I totally agree with that.

It's so cliche, but violence really does beget violence. They don't call it a cycle of abuse for nothing. Humans who fear tend to make irrational decisions based on incomplete information. If these are the world policies that we still prescribe to, it's no wonder that wars proliferate. Fear is "so easy a caveman could do it". It reflects poorly on human advances if we are still using it as a part of social policy, which we are. Particularly when we know that a great majority of our criminals have already been terrorized as children. It goes without saying that fear induction and punishments simply perpetuate the situation that the criminal likely came from in the first place. So in this way, not only is punishment ineffective, it is actually detrimental.

Someone once said that a ,"society can best be judged by the way it treats its children." I guess it beggs the question, how are the problem children in Atlanta treated? I'm hearing that their education is often subpar, and that drugs infest their neighborhoods with high frequency. These are all abuses against children who have little control over their environments. I haven't looked it up, but I am willing to bet that documented child abuse is as high in Atlanta as many other parts of the South. Are kids in Atlanta still routinely treated like members of a subhuman species? Is punishment a popular way to communicate with children?

[otoatlanta]

[quote=backfist;1979327] He's going to be warehoused for a year or two ... and then he's going to be released, and society likely won't be the better for it.

quote]


And not only warehoused, but warehoused and likely made even more brutal than before.