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People forget that we live in the Deep South where up until 30-40 years ago, blacks did not have access to any schools they wanted and were shut out of many careers. There were actually laws that forbade whites from doing business with blacks and many unions and trade guilds completely excluded blacks. The lack of opportunities created large pockets of extreme poverty that still exist today.
Just think about it, when you are shut out and kept down time and time again, you begin to believe that you have no hope and no ability to achieve your dreams and better your life; thus you pass on this perception and outlook on life to your children. Although we have come a long way and a lot of barriers have been knocked down, this cycle of hopelessness continues and the mindset that America is not meant for poor African Americans persists.
What further aggrevates the situation is that there are large numbers of transplants arriving in your city every year with well-paying jobs. Those of the native population that are down and out and stuck in poverty see this and frustration builds resulting in robberies, carjackings, etc.
The situation won't change here until we all see oursevles as Atlantans and take control of the situation by demanding better from ourselves and our neighbors. Also, better enforcement of existing laws--no matter how minor--may lead to the prevention of worse crimes. Finally, creating more rec leagues, community centers, arts programs, and activities for youth [b]is essential[b] because it's better for kids anywhere to redirect their energies towards something constructive rather than having too much idle time.
There it is. You nailed it right there. It's not about being kept back some 30-40 years ago or skilled worker taking local jobs. It's about one self to better them self. How is it that you have uneducated people come to the US some legal and some not getting educations from the free education system yet people who are born and raised here are not taking advantage of what is available to them. This country is hiring skilled workers from overseas b/c the folks here are not educated enough to get the job done. That almost most makes no sense but it's happening. People here need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop looking for handouts.
The 40 acres and the mule have been given away long ago to the legal and illegal immigrants who know what to do with it.
There it is. You nailed it right there. It's not about being kept back some 30-40 years ago or skilled worker taking local jobs. It's about one self to better them self. How is it that you have uneducated people come to the US some legal and some not getting educations from the free education system yet people who are born and raised here are not taking advantage of what is available to them. This country is hiring skilled workers from overseas b/c the folks here are not educated enough to get the job done. That almost most makes no sense but it's happening. People here need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop looking for handouts.
The 40 acres and the mule have been given to the legal and illegal immigrants who know what to do with it.
It's all about changing attitudes and mindsets. Why is it that a poor immigrant from India can arrive here and become a millionaire within his lifetime while a poor American remains in the same fragile economic state? I believe it's because the immigrant had the moxy and determination to obtain a work visa for the US and recognizes the opportunities available through work and sacrifice, while the poor native isn't aware of the opportunities available or is surrounded by elements that have a strong negative influence.
You must not really know any black people, so I'll indulge you. Take a drive down Cascade Road in Southwest Atlanta and tell me what you see. After that, drive down Campbellton Road through Sandtown in South Fulton and then head south towards Fayetteville and notice the $500K-$1 million homes. Most of my friends from high school went on the college and became engineers, pharmacists, businessmen, etc.
This is exactly the problem. Everytime I have tried to start a conversation with a Black person, educated or not, somehow the conversation always ends up in something like this, "such and such drives this car, such and such lives in a million dollar home", I mean who the hell cares? I was talking to a Black person on the Connecticut forum that wanted to move to Greenwich and her very first post was "Where can I find a house between 7000 and 12000/month" I told her that such rentals for even Greenwich were ridiculous and that people in Greenwich frowned upon mindless materialism, she accused me of being a racist and discouraging a Black person from moving into the neighborhood, anyways, the thread ended up being closed. One thing that truly turns me off from even trying to get to know a black person is this "ultra-materialistic" culture. With that, there is the talk about religion and "spirituality". I mean, cant you see how hypocritical this is? It is just like BET, they show for hours and hours all these lowlife thugs talking about how much money they make and their bags of money(I am sure they are not running GM or Microsoft), and then later on, they bring on these very "spiritual" religious shows. Buy yourself an average home, drive an average car and invest your money like most Americans. No one gives a damn about your diamond encrusted spinning wheels or your collection of 200 basketball shoes LOL..once again, it is all about ignorance
It's all about changing attitudes and mindsets. Why is it that a poor immigrant from India can arrive here and become a millionaire within his lifetime while a poor American remains in the same fragile economic state? I believe it's because the immigrant had the moxy and determination to obtain a work visa for the US and recognizes the opportunities available through work and sacrifice, while the poor native isn't aware of the opportunities available or is surrounded by elements that have a strong negative influence.
I wouldn't say it's that people here are not "aware" of the services available to them, it's a complete lack of motivation to pull themselves out of their situation (hard work to do) when it's much easier to get a government check in the mail every month. It doesn't matter if it's the ghetto or a trailer park, there's a certain percentage of people who as citizens tap into "benefits", and will milk it dry rather than do what it takes to better themselves.
Foreigners not being citizens don't have access to all of the services that citizens have access to. I'm not talking about illegals who misuse the health care system or anything, I'm talking about those from India and certain Asian countries who come here and work like crazy and within a year own shops and stores. They're motivated for two reasons: First, they can't "fall back" on "benefits" that as non-citizens they haven't got access to, and, many of them come from countries where entire families work hard *together* to achieve a goal (business). In the ghettos and trailer parks most kids don't even know who their fathers are, much less have an entire family that's willing to work together to better the whole group. This is why the foreigners are doing so much better than those who live here in poverty.
I wouldn't say it's that people here are not "aware" of the services available to them, it's a complete lack of motivation to pull themselves out of their situation (hard work to do) when it's much easier to get a government check in the mail every month. It doesn't matter if it's the ghetto or a trailer park, there's a certain percentage of people who as citizens tap into "benefits", and will milk it dry rather than do what it takes to better themselves.
Foreigners not being citizens don't have access to all of the services that citizens have access to. I'm not talking about illegals who misuse the health care system or anything, I'm talking about those from India and certain Asian countries who come here and work like crazy and within a year own shops and stores. They're motivated for two reasons: First, they can't "fall back" on "benefits" that as non-citizens they haven't got access to, and, many of them come from countries where entire families work hard *together* to achieve a goal (business). In the ghettos and trailer parks most kids don't even know who their fathers are, much less have an entire family that's willing to work together to better the whole group. This is why the foreigners are doing so much better than those who live here in poverty.
I disagree. When you go to an inner-city neighborhood you will see a countless number of people working their tails off. You also see little shops and buisnesses that may look like their in disrepair, but they are doing a lot of business--i.e. tire shops, apparel shops, "shadetree" mechanics. A lof these proprietors lack the credit for a business loan or are not aware what resources to use to improve their business.
Also, believe it or not, people that turn towards illicit business, such as drug dealing, bust their tails as well to build their businesses--albeit in unconventional and immoral ways. There are a lot of people in the ghetto that are not content with "sitting around and waiting for handouts". You will be surprised.
The major problem is the mindset. How do we break the mindset of those who believe that America is not meant to include them or the feeling that there are no opportunities. You are right in that it does in part start at the home, but outside of that, why does it continue? It's definitely not laziness.
One thing that truly turns me off from even trying to get to know a black person is this "ultra-materialistic" culture. With that, there is the talk about religion and "spirituality". I mean, cant you see how hypocritical this is?
Actually, this DOES bring up one big difference between the cultures that sometimes causes a rift.
Right now two black "mega-church" leaders are under investigation for possibly mishandling money from their churches (in Atlanta - there are a few others in other locations under watch too). One of the ministers ironically has a last name of "dollars" . Anyway, one of these mega-churches actually brought in 69 million dollars in one year. The minister drives a Rolls Royce, flies around in a private plane, has a huge house, and gets on stage with flashy gold and diamond jewelry. And know what? Every week there are THOUSANDS of people in his audience, and when interviewed, they all are 100% behind him during the financial probes. They (at least those interviewed) see absolutely nothing wrong with him living in drippy wealth. I will say that this is a complete turnaround compared to what you would call a "white" church, because I know that at least back home they would have kicked a minister's butt out if he pulled up in a Rolls or walked in with a 12lb gold neckchain around his neck.
Likewise, black coworkers in our company who work in the warehouse barely have enough money to pay for gas in their cars, but you typically see then wearing designer clothes, and multiple diamond and/or gold rings and neck chains. The white and Mexican workers don't do that. Well, except for one white guy but he is a poster child for a trailer park and thinks he's the reincarnation of Vanilla Ice.
But the point is that yes, at least to those of us who are lowly white outside observers, material possessions DO seem to be more important in the black culture than in many others - even in the church. I can't help but think that this can't possibly be good for kids to see - it fosters the idea that the more "stuff" you have, no matter how you get it, the more "important" you are. NOT true. Not that there aren't plenty of white preachers who misuse money out there - but they tend to do it under the table and much more quietly and not flash it out openly on stage, and most likely their followers wouldn't be nearly as supportive if they were made aware of what the misused money is spent on.
Articles about the church probes for those who are interested:
Minister Calls Senate Probe 'Unjust' (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=1290286 - broken link)
This is exactly the problem. Everytime I have tried to start a conversation with a Black person, educated or not, somehow the conversation always ends up in something like this, "such and such drives this car, such and such lives in a million dollar home", I mean who the hell cares? I was talking to a Black person on the Connecticut forum that wanted to move to Greenwich and her very first post was "Where can I find a house between 7000 and 12000/month" I told her that such rentals for even Greenwich were ridiculous and that people in Greenwich frowned upon mindless materialism, she accused me of being a racist and discouraging a Black person from moving into the neighborhood, anyways, the thread ended up being closed. One thing that truly turns me off from even trying to get to know a black person is this "ultra-materialistic" culture. With that, there is the talk about religion and "spirituality". I mean, cant you see how hypocritical this is? It is just like BET, they show for hours and hours all these lowlife thugs talking about how much money they make and their bags of money(I am sure they are not running GM or Microsoft), and then later on, they bring on these very "spiritual" religious shows. Buy yourself an average home, drive an average car and invest your money like most Americans. No one gives a damn about your diamond encrusted spinning wheels or your collection of 200 basketball shoes LOL..once again, it is all about ignorance
Well when you use words like "ghetto" you're implying socioeconomic status. Many of the neighborhoods that I suggested are middle-class to upper middle-class and filled with everyday working folks.
It's funny that you act like white folks aren't "materialistic". I mean, you live in Eagan, a cookie-cutter McMansion suburb close to the Mall of America, and you're pointing fingers at blacks for being materialistic? Also, who are you calling "ignorant" anyways?
You've obviously made up your mind about black people and I'm not going to waste my time to convince someone who draws their perceptions of an entire eithnic group by watching horrible cable TV shows.
Last edited by south-to-west; 11-13-2007 at 08:57 AM..
The major problem is the mindset. How do we break the mindset of those who believe that America is not meant to include them or the feeling that there are no opportunities. You are right in that it does in part start at the home, but outside of that, why does it continue? It's definitely not laziness.
Exactly- how do you break that mindset? You mentioned in your post above that 30-40 years ago there were policies that kept blacks from certain jobs, etc., and that the feelings from that timeframe get passed down through the generations, contributing to the attitudes we have today. That was two generations ago already- how long are people going to use the same excuse- are we going to be hearing in the future about how "90-100 years ago, blacks couldn't even apply for jobs with such and such"???
My ancestors came over from Hungary and Poland in the 40's and 50's, and even though there weren't formal laws that forbade them from being considered for certain positions, there were plenty of groups that wouldn't deal with them- yet they still managed to find ways to make a living and prosper, rather than passing down feelings of exclusion to future generations. Sure, there was the occasional story of the hardships they endured, but it was always followed with the motivational story of how they got through it, and how they would never let it happen again.
I don't have an answer on how to break the cycle, but I do know that it can (and has) been done.
The situation won't change here until we all see oursevles as Atlantans instead of pointing fingers at "those people" or "these people"; and take control of the situation by demanding better from ourselves and our neighbors. Also, better enforcement of existing laws--no matter how minor--may lead to the prevention of worse crimes. Finally, creating more rec leagues, community centers, arts programs, and activities for youth is essential because it's better for kids anywhere to redirect their energies towards something constructive rather than having too much idle time.
Exactly my sentiment!! We as a community need to demand and/or help fund (monetary and voluntary) such programs. Furthermore, you can not say you are not part of the community if you are adversely affected by the situation at hand. So those of you who think you know everything about people based on TV, here's your chance to make a difference in the lives of some glowing stars while meeting some real life "Barak Obamas". Prevention is the key. Preventing possible crimes by educationing and providing accessible programs for the youth.
More jails is not the answer. Jails are not the "Motel 6" they used to be but they still provide a sense of belonging to some career criminals. The answer is mandatory rehabilitation through education and job skills.
"The 40 acres and the mule have been given away long ago to the legal and illegal immigrants who know what to do with it. "
Well I guarantee I would've known what to do with mine......sold it to a builder for a quick mill and rode that mule all the way to the bank.
Actually, this DOES bring up one big difference between the cultures that sometimes causes a rift.
Right now two black "mega-church" leaders are under investigation for possibly mishandling money from their churches (in Atlanta - there are a few others in other locations under watch too). One of the ministers ironically has a last name of "dollars" . Anyway, one of these mega-churches actually brought in 69 million dollars in one year. The minister drives a Rolls Royce, flies around in a private plane, has a huge house, and gets on stage with flashy gold and diamond jewelry. And know what? Every week there are THOUSANDS of people in his audience, and when interviewed, they all are 100% behind him during the financial probes. They (at least those interviewed) see absolutely nothing wrong with him living in drippy wealth. I will say that this is a complete turnaround compared to what you would call a "white" church, because I know that at least back home they would have kicked a minister's butt out if he pulled up in a Rolls or walked in with a 12lb gold neckchain around his neck.
Likewise, black coworkers in our company who work in the warehouse barely have enough money to pay for gas in their cars, but you typically see then wearing designer clothes, and multiple diamond and/or gold rings and neck chains. The white and Mexican workers don't do that. Well, except for one white guy but he is a poster child for a trailer park and thinks he's the reincarnation of Vanilla Ice.
But the point is that yes, at least to those of us who are lowly white outside observers, material possessions DO seem to be more important in the black culture than in many others - even in the church. I can't help but think that this can't possibly be good for kids to see - it fosters the idea that the more "stuff" you have, no matter how you get it, the more "important" you are. NOT true. Not that there aren't plenty of white preachers who misuse money out there - but they tend to do it under the table and much more quietly and not flash it out openly on stage, and most likely their followers wouldn't be nearly as supportive if they were made aware of what the misused money is spent on.
LOL! I won't disagree with what you said about megachurches. I often scratch my head myself on why people would give 10% of their paychecks to a guy who has his own private jet. But don't forget about white evangelists such as the "pink haired" lady on TV or James Bakker who built an air-conditioned doghouse for his dog.
Undoubteldy, a lot of those suffering from the current mortgage crisis are whites who over-leveraged themselves--including the large portion who used their homes as cash cows. Also, all you have to do is go to Buckhead and you'll see plenty of whites flashing ostentatious symbols of wealth, including the many who are "$30,000 millionaires".
Last edited by south-to-west; 11-13-2007 at 09:30 AM..
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. There are a lot of people in the ghetto that are not content with "sitting around and waiting for handouts". You will be surprised. 
. Anyway, one of these mega-churches actually brought in 69 million dollars in one year. The minister drives a Rolls Royce, flies around in a private plane, has a huge house, and gets on stage with flashy gold and diamond jewelry. And know what? Every week there are THOUSANDS of people in his audience, and when interviewed, they all are 100% behind him during the financial probes. They (at least those interviewed) see absolutely nothing wrong with him living in drippy wealth. I will say that this is a complete turnaround compared to what you would call a "white" church, because I know that at least back home they would have kicked a minister's butt out if he pulled up in a Rolls or walked in with a 12lb gold neckchain around his neck. 
. Prevention is the key. Preventing possible crimes by educationing and providing accessible programs for the youth. 
