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Heh, no doubt about it, afone. It came on all of a sudden and I can't seem to stop it!
Seriously, there is a huge difference between a few folks having a quiet drink or two in a late night bar versus a mega-cruising, stereo-blasting, street-trashing, gun-shooting, drug-dealing melee like the one that brought the old Buckhead scene to its knees.
I've heard people claim that Atlanta needs a 24 hour party district in order to be world class.
What it really needs is more folks who know how to act like world class citizens instead of a bunch of naive yahoos.
Yes I agree with that.I would never want Atlanta to be like New Orleans night life.
Well the problem is that our different areas and options are too disparate. We don't necessarily need a night club district. But we also shouldn't have a handful of bars/clubs at least a mile apart, considering we also lack the adequate mass transit to transport those bar hoppers.
For instance, NYC doesn't really have a district. There are bars everywhere. And many a time I've gone from UWS for drinks and taken the train to party in LES later. Or Brooklyn to pregrame, back to Manhattan, and back to BK for a late night spot. That's well and good when you've got a train system to transport you. But if you have to do that while inebriated, with a car, it discourages activity.
We either need better transit or a higher concetration of bars/clubs in particular areas, or, and this is a novel idea, both! We all know ATL needs to get better with its street life and vitality. Stifling the only thing we had going in that regard just makes the city feel dead to tourists. Residents can have fun because we know how to navigate the city. Vistors not so much.
This is spot on. Atlanta has a lot of smaller bar districts and if you're out drinking with no DD your only option is to cab it between them if you want to really barhop. And with the distance, cost, and hassle, it might not even be worth getting a cab.
You left out the fact that you can WALK between bars in New York, at least in Manhattan. Party in the LES, work your way up to Thompkins Square, hit a few places on St. Marks and work your way towards the West Village. You can do all that in relative safety in a small group. Would you even think of going from East Atlanta to L5P to Va-Hi on foot at night. Number one is the sheer distance between those areas, number two is the greater risk of crime.
This is spot on. Atlanta has a lot of smaller bar districts and if you're out drinking with no DD your only option is to cab it between them if you want to really barhop. And with the distance, cost, and hassle, it might not even be worth getting a cab.
You left out the fact that you can WALK between bars in New York, at least in Manhattan. Party in the LES, work your way up to Thompkins Square, hit a few places on St. Marks and work your way towards the West Village. You can do all that in relative safety in a small group. Would you even think of going from East Atlanta to L5P to Va-Hi on foot at night. Number one is the sheer distance between those areas, number two is the greater risk of crime.
This is spot on. Atlanta has a lot of smaller bar districts and if you're out drinking with no DD your only option is to cab it between them if you want to really barhop. And with the distance, cost, and hassle, it might not even be worth getting a cab.
You left out the fact that you can WALK between bars in New York, at least in Manhattan. Party in the LES, work your way up to Thompkins Square, hit a few places on St. Marks and work your way towards the West Village. You can do all that in relative safety in a small group. Would you even think of going from East Atlanta to L5P to Va-Hi on foot at night. Number one is the sheer distance between those areas, number two is the greater risk of crime.
I lived in Staten Island.It was difficult to get to Manhattan to party because of the Ferry times.Or who wanted to drive to the Verrano Bridge at 4am?
I don't understand why even bother comparing Atlanta to NYC when there are more cities NOT like NYC than are?Its pointless.NYC is NYC for a reason.Even Chicago has spread out party districts.
It only has the Blue Line that runs from the airport to Downtown.NYC is an anamoly that you cannot hold as a standard.
D.C.has Adams Morgan and Georgetown but most people cab it or drive also.
NYC:Its a city you either want to be in or dont. Elements like transportation are desireable for a nightlife but is hardly common or accessible to party districts in most cities.
Every city has areas that are more accessible then others.
The other thing is how does this hamper Atlanta's nightlife when its obvious that it used to support nightlife on a large scale in BV but the city has only gotten denser with more transit options?
Edgewood by the way is booming because of the streetcar.Streetcar opens next year runs in front of almost all those clubs/Bars.
My betting money is on Edgwood.That area is becoming something serious and fast.
I lived in Staten Island.It was difficult to get to Manhattan to party because of the Ferry times.Or who wanted to drive to the Verrano Bridge at 4am?
I don't understand why even bother comparing Atlanta to NYC when there are more cities NOT like NYC than are?Its pointless.NYC is NYC for a reason.Even Chicago has spread out party districts.
It only has the Blue Line that runs from the airport to Downtown.NYC is an anamoly that you cannot hold as a standard.
D.C.has Adams Morgan and Georgetown but most people cab it or drive also.
NYC:Its a city you either want to be in or dont. Elements like transportation are desireable for a nightlife but is hardly common or accessible to party districts in most cities.
Every city has areas that are more accessible then others.
The other thing is how does this hamper Atlanta's nightlife when its obvious that it used to support nightlife on a large scale in BV but the city has only gotten denser with more transit options?
Edgewood by the way is booming because of the streetcar.Streetcar opens next year runs in front of almost all those clubs/Bars.
My betting money is on Edgwood.That area is becoming something serious and fast.
Crime is not really ans issue as distance.
Yes, you have a point that most cities involve some element of cabbing or driving. But this:
Quote:
how does this hamper Atlanta's nightlife when its obvious that it used to support nightlife on a large scale in BV but the city has only gotten denser with more transit options?
Well my whole point wasn't that we couldn't support nightlife on a large scale in Atlanta. It's that we don't support it.
And, as per your previous post, no one said the lack of this infrastructure "stop[ped] people from going out." When did I every say that?
Clearly we had activity in BV without it, as I acknowledged and you acknowledge. My point is that since we don't have the transportation infrastructure, we got rid of the one thing that made nightlife convenient and accessible for visitors, which was the high concentration of bars/clubs that only existed in Buckhead. Y'know the thing we "used to support." Key words, used to.
However we dice it, having a better concentration of bars gives the city a sense of vibrancy. I'm not saying demolishing Buckhead and trying to start over wasn't necessary, or that it was unjustified, or whatever. It's just the reality of what our scene looks like now for people who visit.
And I never said we had to relive Buckhead, because clearly it had many problems. I said we either need better mass transit or a higher concentration. That does not translate into MTA-level mass transit or Buckhead level concentrations. It means just that. Better than what we have now, and a higher concentration than what we have now, or both, particularly for people who visit the city. And MARTA shuts down at 1 am dude; that is not an option for most of the club/bar areas.
You and I agree that there is room for improvement. We really don't have an argument there. You're simply interpreting my statements to mean something that I'm not saying.
And I've stressed that this improvement is particularly beneficial for visitors or folks new to the city who are not locals. Time and time again, we see on the boards how folks mention they realized Atlanta was place you had to get to know to have fun, because we lack the obvious street life.
This isn't about how much fun us locals have in Atlanta or how bad nightlife is in Atlanta. Which I never said or even implied, because I've had epic party experiences here. Edgewood is indeed one of my favorite places to hang at night.
My bottom line is that considering Atlanta doesn't have the transportation convenience, demolishing the one high concentration of bars/clubs that we had does "hamper Atlanta's nightlife" This is exactly what most of the respondents to the poll answered.
Whether we want to debate the merits of people's opinions is another story. But the fact that so many people agreed that Buckhead is worse, those opinions shouldn't be swept under the rug. The city really has to think about how it wants to improve nightlife, because that is what drew a lot of people to this city in the first place!
Last edited by bizchick86; 08-29-2013 at 01:56 AM..
Yes, you have a point that most cities involve some element of cabbing or driving. But this:
Well my whole point wasn't that we couldn't support nightlife on a large scale in Atlanta. It's that we don't support it.
And, as per your previous post, no one said the lack of this infrastructure "stop[ped] people from going out." When did I every say that?
Clearly we had activity in BV without it, as I acknowledged and you acknowledge. My point is that since we don't have the transportation infrastructure, we got rid of the one thing that made nightlife convenient and accessible for visitors, which was the high concentration of bars/clubs that only existed in Buckhead. Y'know the thing we "used to support." Key words, used to.
However we dice it, having a better concentration of bars gives the city a sense of vibrancy. I'm not saying demolishing Buckhead and trying to start over wasn't necessary, or that it was unjustified, or whatever. It's just the reality of what our scene looks like now for people who visit.
And I never said we had to relive Buckhead, because clearly it had many problems. I said we either need better mass transit or a higher concentration. That does not translate into MTA-level mass transit or Buckhead level concentrations. It means just that. Better than what we have now, and a higher concentration than what we have now, or both, particularly for people who visit the city. And MARTA shuts down at 1 am dude; that is not an option for most of the club/bar areas.
You and I agree that there is room for improvement. We really don't have an argument there. You're simply interpreting my statements to mean something that I'm not saying.
And I've stressed that this improvement is particularly beneficial for visitors or folks new to the city who are not locals. Time and time again, we see on the boards how folks mention they realized Atlanta was place you had to get to know to have fun, because we lack the obvious street life.
This isn't about how much fun us locals have in Atlanta or how bad nightlife is in Atlanta. Which I never said or even implied, because I've had epic party experiences here. Edgewood is indeed one of my favorite places to hang at night.
My bottom line is that considering Atlanta doesn't have the transportation convenience, demolishing the one high concentration of bars/clubs that we had does "hamper Atlanta's nightlife" This is exactly what most of the respondents to the poll answered.
Whether we want to debate the merits of people's opinions is another story. But the fact that so many people agreed that Buckhead is worse, those opinions shouldn't be swept under the rug. The city really has to think about how it wants to improve nightlife, because that is what drew a lot of people to this city in the first place!
I have to agree with this. And I think what makes this especially important in Atlanta's case is that the area that caters most to tourists, downtown, doesn't have much of a nightlife street scene at all.
Having a lot of smaller nodes scattered about the city is a great thing, but having that in addition to a main nightlife district with a critical mass of bars, clubs, etc. is even better. I really think that Fairlie-Poplar is ideally set up for that.
I have to agree with this. And I think what makes this especially important in Atlanta's case is that the area that caters most to tourists, downtown, doesn't have much of a nightlife street scene at all.
Having a lot of smaller nodes scattered about the city is a great thing, but having that in addition to a main nightlife district with a critical mass of bars, clubs, etc. is even better. I really think that Fairlie-Poplar is ideally set up for that.
I think because I do have a lot of out of town guest that I rent too,I hear more positive by far thannegative about how great the nightlife is in Atlanta.
For the first time last week I hosted a very "proper" young lady from London who could just not be pleased.
I drove her around the city and showed her some popular areas.She absolutely LOVED Buckhead but thought L5P,Inman and Candler Park looked "rundown" and "shabby" in her words.
When we went out later to Church she complained because it looked very dirty to her.then we left for some other clubs in Edgewood.Pretty much the same thing.
So then I took her to 255 Lounge in Castleberry Hill.She was scared because in her opinion it looked a little rough.By the way this is a black girl so the presence of Afrrican Americans did not scare her but the place did.
Now Im a firm believer in not needing to pay a $15-20 entry fee to have a great time.$10 is my absolute max or I aint going out.
Ive had the WORST time EVER hanging out at opera after I payed $20 to get in.Only reason I did it because it took me off guard.I have been know to say out loud in a crowded line "YOU CHARGE TO MUCH!"
But I really do believe had Reighn or Compund were open,she would have had a great time.As were it was during the weeknight.
Adding to what I was saying,Edgewood and Crescent are very well known areas to the tourist.Especially Crecent Ave
I guess I do see some of your points.Because looking back because now the clubs close early everywhere.Not just BV.There are bars everywhere with dance floor SPACE.
But not many clubs where you go main;y to to dance.Many of the big ones are in Dekalb County part of Atlanta off Buford or in other parts of Fulton County (I think).
No question the move really hurt Atlanta's nightlife,I just guess I see so much improvement since the early part of BV eventual demise.For many years it totally sucked,but the last few years of late,it seems to be rebounding.
If Kasim Reed is serious about easing those nightclub restrictions,im sure there will be a sea of change in the nightlife of Atlanta.
You can read in one thread that Edgewood, EAV, and Reynoldstown are perfectly safe areas if you simply walk fast and don't make eye contact.....then in another thread, read about how Buckhead had to be shut down because it got too dangerous. Buckhead? BUCKHEAD? I'm sorry, but unless you were a total idiot, Buckhead was never dangerous. It had a couple of very high profile crimes because they involved high profile people, but nobody got hurt who was not involved in some way. I'm sure there were petty crimes, but if you compare the number of thefts to the number of people who were there, I'm sure the rate is very low. The city engaged in scare tactics to try to make the area seem dangerous so they could have an excuse to shut it down, but anybody who actually went out there knew there was never any real danger. I never even got asked for money in Buckhead.
Anyway, I think we definitely need a central party district of some kind. And I don't understand why people talk about the nodes of small districts as if a central party district would kill them. Back when Buckhead was happening, there were still plenty of other places to go. Buckhead was known as the sort of preppy party place for white kids and out of towners, but midtown was also happening for the more international crowd and people who wanted a more urban experience. Kaya/ Vision, eleven50, Leopard Lounge, the original Velvet Room, these places all co-existed with Buckhead. Heck, even Skylab up in Sandy Springs.
If you create a party district, all it does is draw more people out and give visitors who have no idea where to go a real alternative. There will always be other club areas for people who want to experience more of a true scene or just like to go against the grain. Even in its prime, Buckhead clubs, though popular, were never seen as completely authentic and it's not like they drew great DJs. Kimball Collins or Sasha never spun in a Buckhead night club. That doesn't mean they weren't important places for out of town visitors, and even really young people who don't have the experience yet to venture to the real club scene. Remember, Buckhead was also very popular with Emory students. You have to let them ease into night life, you can't just throw them into Vision and say, "here you go!"
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