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You seem to have a personal bone to pick there. We can drop the AT&T example, but I still say monopolies (and oligopolies) are bad and should be broken up.
The last I'll say about this is no, no bone, just correcting your information.
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Power? Food? Shelter? Why are we letting private companies run these things?
Because in the areas they do, they do a good job of it. Ever hear of food stamps? Homeless shelters? Those many times aren't private. They're the government providing for a public need. If you want steak and a mansion, you can buy them yourself because the government isn't supposed to provide more than the basics. (let's not get into issues around food stamps here)
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So certain places on the Earth operate under different laws of economics where utilities can be profitably and successfully run by private companies, but other places it won't work?
Yep. My county's water system is public, as you pointed out, other places have private
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How can we tell these two regions apart?
Trial and error. When the private can't adequately meet needs anymore, the government should step in. When the public programs can be better supplanted by a private system, that can take over.
Bringing this all back around to the topic at hand. No private entity is going to supply significant funding for the GA-400 project. At the best, a developer might pay for part of a station in exchange for MARTA designing a dedicated entrance into it from a nearby transit-oriented development, or putting in a parking deck instead of parking lot so they can use the rest of the land for their development. But even so, the reality is that this extension won't receive significant private funding, there is no way a private developer, or a collection of private developers would generate enough profit quickly enough for them to sink any significant capital funding into the project. Perhaps back in the early nineties when the area was less developed, it might have been possible for MARTA to engage in real estate ventures along the right of way in order to offset the costs, but that ship has long since sailed. The best we could see is the communities and county contributing maybe a hundred million since as I pointed out many posts up, it is the jurisdiction that ultimately profits so the municipalities would see a return on their investment, but seeing much is doubtful.
No private entity is going to supply significant funding for the GA-400 project. At the best, a developer might pay for part of a station in exchange for MARTA designing a dedicated entrance into it from a nearby transit-oriented development, or putting in a parking deck instead of parking lot so they can use the rest of the land for their development. But even so, the reality is that this extension won't receive significant private funding, there is no way a private developer, or a collection of private developers would generate enough profit quickly enough for them to sink any significant capital funding into the project. Perhaps back in the early nineties when the area was less developed, it might have been possible for MARTA to engage in real estate ventures along the right of way in order to offset the costs, but that ship has long since sailed. The best we could see is the communities and county contributing maybe a hundred million since as I pointed out many posts up, it is the jurisdiction that ultimately profits so the municipalities would see a return on their investment, but seeing much is doubtful.
With the way that a GA 400 MARTA extension would be currently constituted from a financial return standpoint, I agree that no private entity would supply significant funding for it simply because there would be nowhere near enough (if any) profit in it for them.
But there likely would be enough profit in it for one or more private entities if the Red/North and Gold/Northeast MARTA lines (both current and future sections) and all accompanying current and future real estate assets were term-leased out to a private investor/operator who would be responsible for paying all expansion, construction and continuing operational and maintenance costs in exchange for getting to keep all revenues collected from fares and out-leases of MARTA-owned land.
For-profit term-leasing the Red and Gold MARTA lines out to private investor/operators would be a great way to improve and upgrade transit service on those lines so that trains operated around-the-clock at an acceptable frequency along the entire length of those lines.
For-profit term-leasing the Red and Gold MARTA lines out to private investor/operators would also be a great way to get those lines expanded as needed (up the GA 400 North Corridor to Windward and up the I-85 NE Corridor deep into Gwinnett) without begging for additional public subsidies that are not coming anytime soon, if ever, in the foreseeable future in this current highly anti-tax and anti-government political climate.
For-profit term-leasing the Red and Gold MARTA lines out to private investor/operators would also be a great way to get those lines expanded as needed (up the GA 400 North Corridor to Windward and up the I-85 NE Corridor deep into Gwinnett) without begging for additional public subsidies that are not coming anytime soon, if ever, in the foreseeable future in this current highly anti-tax and anti-government political climate.
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
For-profit term-leasing the Red and Gold MARTA lines out to private investor/operators would also be a great way to get those lines expanded as needed (up the GA 400 North Corridor to Windward and up the I-85 NE Corridor deep into Gwinnett) without begging for additional public subsidies that are not coming anytime soon, if ever, in the foreseeable future in this current highly anti-tax and anti-government political climate.
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Originally Posted by cqholt
MARTA cannot operate in Gwinnett county.
MARTA cannot operate in Gwinnett County (or outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties) because it is almost completely-dependent upon the 1% sales tax subsidy that is not politically viable outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties.
There's nothing in state law that says MARTA cannot operate outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties if MARTA found other revenue streams that enabled the agency to operate without the utilization of the 1% sales tax-funded subsidy that it has unwisely become almost solely-dependent upon to exist at this point.
If MARTA utilized other revenue streams (...extremely lucrative revenue streams like for-profit term-leases of transit lines/corridors out to private investors, for-profit out-leases of MARTA-owned real estate, distance-based fares, etc) that would not require politically unviable (and politically-impossible) MARTA-funding sales tax voter referendums that are likely not going to happen at anytime in the foreseeable future, MARTA could operate and expand outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties as needed.
MARTA could operate in Gwinnett County if both MARTA and Gwinnett County wanted, but only if MARTA utilizes funding from revenue streams other than the 1% sales tax that is only politically-viable in Fulton and DeKalb counties.
MARTA cannot operate in Gwinnett County (or outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties) because it is almost completely-dependent upon the 1% sales tax subsidy that is not politically viable outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties.
There's nothing in state law that says MARTA cannot operate outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties if MARTA found other revenue streams that enabled the agency to operate without the utilization of the 1% sales tax-funded subsidy that it has unwisely become almost solely-dependent upon to exist at this point.
Yes there is. Before the TSPLOST, the state legislature re-enforced that MARTA cannot operate outside of the counties its collects its sales tax in. The idea was MARTA could operate, but not own, a rail-based line in another county.
Yes there is. Before the TSPLOST, the state legislature re-enforced that MARTA cannot operate outside of the counties its collects its sales tax in. The idea was MARTA could operate, but not own, a rail-based line in another county.
Even with a provision in state law saying that MARTA could operate but not own a rail-based line in another county, passenger rail transit can still be implemented in outlying counties like Gwinnett (and Cobb and Clayton) by letting either those county governments and/or the state government (likely through GRTA or GDOT) purchase and own the land for future rail lines and contracting with MARTA (or any transit operator they desire) to operate passenger rail transit service on sections of rail transit lines that lie outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties.
When counties outside of Fulton and DeKalb finally decide that they truly want passenger rail transit service (most particularly in Gwinnett, Cobb and Clayton counties where additional transit service is most immediately needed and where those county governments continue to express an intense desire for vastly-increased transit service because of worsening traffic and mobility issues), then there will be nothing to stop them from implementing that critically-needed passenger rail transit service.
There will likely even be multiple future high-capacity passenger rail transit lines that MARTA does not (own) or operate, future high-capacity passenger rail transit lines like, for example:
...A future high-capacity passenger rail transit line or lines (preferably a heavy rail transit line) that runs out from the Atlanta Airport through the fast-growing and increasingly-popular Marietta Street/Howell Mill Road/West Midtown/Marietta Boulevard corridor into Cobb County (and beyond) by way of the historic Western & Atlantic right-of-way corridor;
...A future high-capacity passenger rail transit line (preferably a heavy rail/commuter rail/express rail hybrid-type regional transit line) between the Atlanta Airport and the University of Georgia in Athens (the "Brain Train" line).
Even with a provision in state law saying that MARTA could operate but not own a rail-based line in another county, passenger rail transit can still be implemented in outlying counties like Gwinnett (and Cobb and Clayton) by letting either those county governments and/or the state government (likely through GRTA or GDOT) purchase and own the land for future rail lines and contracting with MARTA (or any transit operator they desire) to operate passenger rail transit service on sections of rail transit lines that lie outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties.
When counties outside of Fulton and DeKalb finally decide that they truly want passenger rail transit service (most particularly in Gwinnett, Cobb and Clayton counties where additional transit service is most immediately needed and where those county governments continue to express an intense desire for vastly-increased transit service because of worsening traffic and mobility issues), then there will be nothing to stop them from implementing that critically-needed passenger rail transit service.
There will likely even be multiple future high-capacity passenger rail transit lines that MARTA does not (own) or operate, future high-capacity passenger rail transit lines like, for example:
...A future high-capacity passenger rail transit line or lines (preferably a heavy rail transit line) that runs out from the Atlanta Airport through the fast-growing and increasingly-popular Marietta Street/Howell Mill Road/West Midtown/Marietta Boulevard corridor into Cobb County (and beyond) by way of the historic Western & Atlantic right-of-way corridor;
...A future high-capacity passenger rail transit line (preferably a heavy rail/commuter rail/express rail hybrid-type regional transit line) between the Atlanta Airport and the University of Georgia in Athens (the "Brain Train" line).
I dont think other counties want to pay extra taxes. IF Gwinnett or Cobb built its own rail line and stopped at a Marta station there would be all sorts of complaints because they have to pay extra to ride another system, or that the rail stops at the county line and doesnt go into the city.
Im not sure why the Brain Train idea never went through, I thought that would make perfect sense
The fact that the brain train doesn't exist....ugh
ATL, Downtown, Midtown/Tech/Atlantic Station, Lindbergh, Buckhead Gwinnett, UGA. THERE IS SO MUCH POTENTIAL IN THAT LINE! It could easily serve as a regional and high frequency commuter line. I know there are some major issues, but the potential there should be realized and investment should be made.
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll Even with a provision in state law saying that MARTA could operate but not own a rail-based line in another county, passenger rail transit can still be implemented in outlying counties like Gwinnett (and Cobb and Clayton) by letting either those county governments and/or the state government (likely through GRTA or GDOT) purchase and own the land for future rail lines and contracting with MARTA (or any transit operator they desire) to operate passenger rail transit service on sections of rail transit lines that lie outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties.
When counties outside of Fulton and DeKalb finally decide that they truly want passenger rail transit service (most particularly in Gwinnett, Cobb and Clayton counties where additional transit service is most immediately needed and where those county governments continue to express an intense desire for vastly-increased transit service because of worsening traffic and mobility issues), then there will be nothing to stop them from implementing that critically-needed passenger rail transit service.
There will likely even be multiple future high-capacity passenger rail transit lines that MARTA does not (own) or operate, future high-capacity passenger rail transit lines like, for example:
...A future high-capacity passenger rail transit line or lines (preferably a heavy rail transit line) that runs out from the Atlanta Airport through the fast-growing and increasingly-popular Marietta Street/Howell Mill Road/West Midtown/Marietta Boulevard corridor into Cobb County (and beyond) by way of the historic Western & Atlantic right-of-way corridor;
...A future high-capacity passenger rail transit line (preferably a heavy rail/commuter rail/express rail hybrid-type regional transit line) between the Atlanta Airport and the University of Georgia in Athens (the "Brain Train" line).
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Originally Posted by SAAN
I dont think other counties want to pay extra taxes. IF Gwinnett or Cobb built its own rail line and stopped at a Marta station there would be all sorts of complaints because they have to pay extra to ride another system, or that the rail stops at the county line and doesnt go into the city.
...You're right...Other counties are not going to pay extra sales taxes to improve, upgrade and expand transit and other counties don't have to pay extra sales taxes to improve, upgrade and expand transit.
If so desired, outlying counties like Gwinnett and Cobb can fund their own rail and bus transit lines and systems without raising sales taxes by utilizing private investment backed by revenues from:
...Inflation-indexed distance-based user fees (distance-based fare structures in which fares are levied by-the-mile instead of by the trip);
...Large-scale mixed-use real estate development at and around transit stations and along transit lines (along the lines of the mixed-use development that surrounds the Lindbergh MARTA Station);
...and Tax Increment Financing/Value Capture (...property tax revenues from new development that goes up along transit lines).
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Originally Posted by SAAN
IF Gwinnett or Cobb built its own rail line and stopped at a Marta station there would be all sorts of complaints because they have to pay extra to ride another system, or that the rail stops at the county line and doesnt go into the city.
...If Gwinnett and/or Cobb built their own rail lines, passengers/riders would not have to pay extra to ride another system if all of the different systems involved were integrated into and used the same inflation-indexed distance-based fare structure where passengers/riders paid roughly up to $0.30-per-mile in 2013 dollars no matter which individual system they used in the Atlanta region.
Also, the individual rail lines that outlying counties like Gwinnett and Cobb built and operated would not just merely stop at the county line, but would continue outside of their respective counties to connect with key commuter destinations within the region like the Perimeter Center/Dunwoody area, Buckhead, Midtown, Downtown, the University of Georgia, and the Atlanta Airport (...a location which is likely the number-one and most-important economic asset in the entire Atlanta region and the state of Georgia).
It would be the direct transit connection with locations of great regional significance outside of those counties that would make those county-commissioned rail transit lines logistically, operationally and financially viable.
Also, individual passenger rail transit lines operated by outlying county governments like Gwinnett and Cobb could contract with an established existing agency like MARTA to use MARTA's existing rail transit tracks, OR...
...OR individual transit agencies in outlying counties like Gwinnett and Cobb could agree to jointly fund the construction, operation and maintenance of new sets of rail transit tracks that all transit agencies would share.
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Originally Posted by SAAN
Im not sure why the Brain Train idea never went through, I thought that would make perfect sense
...The Brain Train idea has not proceeded because it has not had ANY funding whatsoever to proceed and the Brain Train idea will not proceed until it has a dedicated revenue stream that can fully fund the adequate level of service that is needed to make the passenger rail transit line the smashing success that it can be.
The Brain Train in particular would be an excellent transportation project to receive funding through the method of for-profit term-leasing where the future high-capacity passenger rail transit line and all its real estate acquisition, initial construction, and continuing operational and maintenance costs are leased out along with the costs of upgrading GA 316 to a full Interstate-standard superhighway to private investment/operating interests.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 10-17-2013 at 05:58 PM..
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