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Old 09-29-2013, 08:54 PM
 
28,028 posts, read 25,156,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
I still don't get why we are focusing so much attention to these silly suburban areas when the city of Atlanta is poorly served itself. There are neighborhoods begging for transit that isn't downtown or midtown. Just silly to me.

All we're doing is asking jobs and companies to continue avoiding the city itself and go straight for the suburbs just furthering the points made by the Portland mayor.

I don't get it...there's a reason NYC is such a successful city. Most of the jobs are focused in the city itself....not in the suburbs.

And we wonder why downtown is such a mess. We're practically asking new businesses and companies to come to the suburbs.
Again, you're not making an iota of sense whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that the jobs are already in north Fulton without MARTA, which increases the traffic along 400. Thus, it only makes sense to extend transit to that area, especially since those residents are already funding MARTA with their taxes. It keeps cars off the road and has the potential to help somewhat urbanize parts of suburbia.

Your NYC example is silly. I guess Paris is a failure of a city because all the jobs are in La Defense huh? London stinks because of all of those jobs in Canary Wharf instead in in the traditional downtown? Downtown Atlanta is a mess because the city isn't serious about getting it cleaned up. Extending MARTA to the suburbs isn't a losing proposition for downtown in any way; it would only strengthen the city's core by making it that more accessible.

Jobs locate to certain parts of a city for many different reasons and the jobs centers we already have are with us to stay. Thus, the smart thing to do is to make those jobs more accessible to the rest of the metro. It's shortsighted to think otherwise.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
5,021 posts, read 3,526,045 times
Reputation: 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Again, you're not making an iota of sense whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that the jobs are already in north Fulton without MARTA, which increases the traffic along 400. Thus, it only makes sense to extend transit to that area, especially since those residents are already funding MARTA with their taxes. It keeps cars off the road and has the potential to help somewhat urbanize parts of suburbia.

Your NYC example is silly. I guess Paris is a failure of a city because all the jobs are in La Defense huh? London stinks because of all of those jobs in Canary Wharf instead in in the traditional downtown? Downtown Atlanta is a mess because the city isn't serious about getting it cleaned up. Extending MARTA to the suburbs isn't a losing proposition for downtown in any way; it would only strengthen the city's core by making it that more accessible.

Jobs locate to certain parts of a city for many different reasons and the jobs centers we already have are with us to stay. Thus, the smart thing to do is to make those jobs more accessible to the rest of the metro. It's shortsighted to think otherwise.
Exactly. Having HRT extensions to Windward and Stonecrest along with LRT to Emory/CDC and the Beltline for ITP isn't mutually exclusive.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Ga
1,866 posts, read 1,830,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Exactly. Having HRT extensions to Windward and Stonecrest along with LRT to Emory/CDC and the Beltline for ITP isn't mutually exclusive.
Personally, I'm very skeptical of BRT and slightly of LRT in some circumstances. Regardless of price differences, the most used form will be the one that requires the least amount of transfers, which will usually be HRT.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:26 PM
 
6,797 posts, read 6,649,725 times
Reputation: 5416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Again, you're not making an iota of sense whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that the jobs are already in north Fulton without MARTA, which increases the traffic along 400. Thus, it only makes sense to extend transit to that area, especially since those residents are already funding MARTA with their taxes. It keeps cars off the road and has the potential to help somewhat urbanize parts of suburbia.

Your NYC example is silly. I guess Paris is a failure of a city because all the jobs are in La Defense huh? London stinks because of all of those jobs in Canary Wharf instead in in the traditional downtown? Downtown Atlanta is a mess because the city isn't serious about getting it cleaned up. Extending MARTA to the suburbs isn't a losing proposition for downtown in any way; it would only strengthen the city's core by making it that more accessible.

Jobs locate to certain parts of a city for many different reasons and the jobs centers we already have are with us to stay. Thus, the smart thing to do is to make those jobs more accessible to the rest of the metro. It's shortsighted to think otherwise.
Canary Wharf and La Defense are still in the city of Paris and London....That's why I didn't bring up Buckhead...because it's still in the city of Atlanta...

Tokyo has many 'downtowns' or 'high density job centers', but they are all still in the city of Tokyo or it's 23 special wards. That's the problem with Atlanta. Perimeter is not in the city of Atlanta. North Fulton is not the city of Atlanta.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,935 posts, read 3,750,903 times
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So it's an arbitrary line on a map and a different name, who cares? Yes, I'd like to see Atlanta densify, but I'd also like to see people able to get to work.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:12 PM
 
28,028 posts, read 25,156,278 times
Reputation: 16685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Canary Wharf and La Defense are still in the city of Paris and London....That's why I didn't bring up Buckhead...because it's still in the city of Atlanta...

Tokyo has many 'downtowns' or 'high density job centers', but they are all still in the city of Tokyo or it's 23 special wards. That's the problem with Atlanta. Perimeter is not in the city of Atlanta. North Fulton is not the city of Atlanta.
La Defense is not within the city limits of Paris. Even so, what does it matter? Municipal boundaries are nothing more than an artificial line in the sand within the context of this particular discussion. You're making WAY too much out of this. Perimeter would still be a jobs center built in a suburban format on the fringes even if it was within the city of Atlanta, so what's your point here?

Your mindset is very much stuck in the 50's and 60's in the way you so sharply separate city and suburb. We live in a metropolitan society and for all practical purposes, Perimeter, Cumberland, and north Fulton are very important, viable parts of the whole that is greater Atlanta.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:47 PM
 
6,797 posts, read 6,649,725 times
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I prefer the Chicago/NYC/SF approach where everything is focused into one general area or city. What makes Tokyo unique is that, although it is sprawling, it is an extremely high density sprawl where it feels altogether is one area kind of like how downtown and midtown Atlanta is. Two separate areas that feel conjoined. I just wish Atlanta had all of it's high density into downtown and midtown. Atlanta would be a beast if it was. Sadly, it is all spread out which makes traffic spread out. I doubt transit is going to fix the massive traffic problems that have snarled that 400 corridor. The result of poorly planned suburbs that the Portland mayor just talked about.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:12 PM
 
28,028 posts, read 25,156,278 times
Reputation: 16685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
I prefer the Chicago/NYC/SF approach where everything is focused into one general area or city. What makes Tokyo unique is that, although it is sprawling, it is an extremely high density sprawl where it feels altogether is one area kind of like how downtown and midtown Atlanta is. Two separate areas that feel conjoined. I just wish Atlanta had all of it's high density into downtown and midtown. Atlanta would be a beast if it was. Sadly, it is all spread out which makes traffic spread out. I doubt transit is going to fix the massive traffic problems that have snarled that 400 corridor. The result of poorly planned suburbs that the Portland mayor just talked about.
Atlanta is not Chicago, NYC, SF, or Tokyo. Our geography is different (no natural boundaries), our history is different (we boomed in the post-war era), and so on. Given that, it simply amazes me that you think that extending transit to jobs-rich suburban areas isn't good and won't result in a net benefit to the region. Simply astounding.

Funny you should say that you don't think that transit will help alleviate traffic along 400. A study came out recently which suggests that it actually will:
"By analyzing the impact of a Los Angeles transit strike in 2003, Anderson found that congestion did decrease considerably — but only on roads that paralleled heavy transit corridors."

Public Transportation Does Relieve Traffic Congestion, Just Not Everywhere - Eric Jaffe - The Atlantic Cities
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,352 posts, read 16,373,686 times
Reputation: 4971
Quote:
I still don't get why we are focusing so much attention to these silly suburban areas when the city of Atlanta is poorly served itself. There are neighborhoods begging for transit that isn't downtown or midtown. Just silly to me.
There are bus routes that serve the areas. Why does a lot of people forget about buses?
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:08 AM
 
28,280 posts, read 24,902,923 times
Reputation: 9637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
I still don't get why we are focusing so much attention to these silly suburban areas when the city of Atlanta is poorly served itself. There are neighborhoods begging for transit that isn't downtown or midtown. Just silly to me.
What's silly about it? Some of the suburban stations are much more heavily used than many intown stations.

MARTA eyeing major expansion up Georgia 400 corridor
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