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AG, I guess if you've got so much Native American in you then you're not white, right? I'm always unsure how this label works. When I was a much younger and thinner girl I remember a black friend of mine (a BOY, naturally) telling me that I must have SOME black in my heritage because how did I get my bubble butt? LOL! Now, I know he was kidding but...heck, sometimes it seems that the "rules" regarding who is what race seem to go that way....
Yes, MJ1999, I completely agree with you. My father is a dentist and my mother a retired nurse. They had 5 kids. My oldest brother is a vet, older sister a physician, me a mathematician (black sheep!), my younger brother a dentist, and the youngest is a barber (severe dyslexia - couldn't go to college). 4 out of 5 children got graduate or professional degrees and work in professional careers.
Oh, and we're white.
But there's no small credit due to having been graced by accident of birth to having educated parents. And I recognize how many black people just didn't start out on the same level as I.
My husband grew up in poverty. Born to a teenaged unwed mother and a teenaged father who ran off. His mother scraped the earth with her bare hands to raise him. They both went to college together and graduated on the same day.
But he doesn't sit there and smugly claim that he got where he is (professor) SOLELY because he worked hard. He credits his gender and his race for giving him ground-level advantages. He credits government assistance for making college possible. He credits government assistance for making it possible for his mother to buy a home making less than 15K a year. And LASTLY he credits himself. He says, all the time, "Imagine if I grew up in these circumstance and I were black?"
....plessthanpointohfive it is good to know that there are people who will admit what you stated above. Being born to highly educated parents does matter!!! and up until just recently in the African American community we did not have many dentists or lawyers or heart surgeons to pattern our lives after, to just ask "how do I do it... what courses to I take...what books should I read... etc...? It is sad to see those who just want to discard it as...."just work hard... or pull yourself up by the bootstraps...". Those things are needed to succeed in this country and it sounds like those in your family worked hard. But the guidance is also huge.
One can have all the desire in the world but if he or she is not shown where to get started, how does he/she make it? Some people just get lucky (blessed I call it) and find the door. However, there are a lot who miss it.
AG, I guess if you've got so much Native American in you then you're not white, right? I'm always unsure how this label works. When I was a much younger and thinner girl I remember a black friend of mine (a BOY, naturally) telling me that I must have SOME black in my heritage because how did I get my bubble butt? LOL! Now, I know he was kidding but...heck, sometimes it seems that the "rules" regarding who is what race seem to go that way....
Technicall no, I'm not "white", and if I were to bother to gather the proper paperwork I could probably do something about it regarding grants I've been told, but in a similar fashion to blacks, it isn't exactly like there's a computer database of Native American ancestory records you can easily go to. On paperwork, yes, I do put "caucasian".
Regarding Native American land, reservations, etc. The history of what was done to the various tribes is incredibly cruel and brutal when settlers came here to gather up land. Today in 2008 however, most of the problems that were brought up earlier by someone (alcoholism, lack of education, etc) are for the most part, brought up them by their own doing. You cannot blame anyone else for being lazy or drunk or not going to school - you can only blame yourself, regardless of whether you are white, black, brown, or red.
If you wanna get REAL technical about it, most all folks in the U.S. today are mixed race. Even "black" people today are generally really "brown", and much lighter skinned than they were generations ago because of past relations and having kids with whites, hispanics, asians, etc. over the years.
I went into this story a while back so I'll condense it, but I used to live under a black couple with a young daughter who were heavily into the African culture bit regarding their home decor, way they dressed, etc. They decided to take their daughter on a 3 week African trip to see her "heritage" and short of it, cut their trip short as they ran across a fair amount of discrimination by blacks in Africa aimed toward them. Apparently American blacks are by some there seen as "unpure", brown-not-black, and mixed. They even had a small handful of people make these types of comments to them and their daughter, and even had a confrontation with one man who did the, "how DARE you call yourselves African?" bit to them. He informed them that they were brown Americans and nothing more. They came back mentally warped from the experience, but it showed them that indeed, most of us ARE mixed and not "pure" anything, here - at least when viewed by others around the world apparently.
Location: Originally from Cali relocated to Inman Park/Old 4th Ward/Westside Atlanta
987 posts, read 3,911,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive
Yes, MJ1999, I completely agree with you. My father is a dentist and my mother a retired nurse. They had 5 kids. My oldest brother is a vet, older sister a physician, me a mathematician (black sheep!), my younger brother a dentist, and the youngest is a barber (severe dyslexia - couldn't go to college). 4 out of 5 children got graduate or professional degrees and work in professional careers.
Oh, and we're white.
But there's no small credit due to having been graced by accident of birth to having educated parents. And I recognize how many black people just didn't start out on the same level as I.
My husband grew up in poverty. Born to a teenaged unwed mother and a teenaged father who ran off. His mother scraped the earth with her bare hands to raise him. They both went to college together and graduated on the same day.
But he doesn't sit there and smugly claim that he got where he is (professor) SOLELY because he worked hard. He credits his gender and his race for giving him ground-level advantages. He credits government assistance for making college possible. He credits government assistance for making it possible for his mother to buy a home making less than 15K a year. And LASTLY he credits himself. He says, all the time, "Imagine if I grew up in these circumstance and I were black?"
Thank you for your honesty & candor on your personal life Pless! Your perspective is greatly appreciated...Could you tell me why more people aren't as honest with their reality as you and your husband seem to be? When behind closed doors is "white privilege" discussed at dinner tables, social functions, etc? Inquiring minds would love to know! I think it's great we can have this dialogue here and have some understanding. Thanks!
Last edited by Atlantasfinest; 03-27-2008 at 10:46 AM..
I have to admit that I don't know if it's because I am honest or because I am AWARE. Before I met my husband I was raised in the lily white (pun intended) Cleaver type family. My knowledge and impression of the "other side" was influence by my parents and my lily white experience. Now, my parents are what I think of as new generation non-racists - meaning they know it's wrong to have any kind of racial mindset and they try not to...but they were raised in the 50s so some of THEIR childhood bleeds through. I grew up with THEIR struggle to good people and sometimes saying racist things. When you're very young you don't see this as good or bad or as anything that needs a label.
But my parents did raise me to be a kind person to everyone. And I think this was a good start for me that allowed me to later open my mind and try to understand where others were coming from.
I really started becoming aware of how good I had it when I went to college. AFter all, I'd gone to private school my whole life, surrounded by people just like me. But I went to a public college (because it had a good biology program and I thought I wanted to be a doctor!). Once there I met so many people, black and white and other, who just didn't have the background I have. I saw people who struggled enormously just to get into college and here I was, with my tuition paid for, my rent paid for, my meal plan paid for, and my books paid for and with a monthly stipend - FROM MY PARENTS. How could I complain about my circumstances??? How could I not admire them?
And I saw people fail, too, because they didn't have what I did. Saw them drop out of college to get a job to help mom pay the rent. Saw them give up hope, sometimes.
And, here's an embarrassing admission, I didn't have ANY black friends until I went to college. Not a one. There were black kids in my private school, sure, and I was FRIENDLY with them, but none of them were my FRIENDS. This wasn't because I didn't want to be friends with them so much as I was just an insecure teenager who didn't want to leave my tiny safe sphere.
It wasn't until college that I became true friends with a black person (that naughty boy I mentioned earlier!). And you know what's even more embarrassing??? I can remember the thought passing through my mind that "He's just like me. He thinks, feels, reacts...we're not that different."
I have to say that first I was sort of shocked that I would have that thought. Then I was ashamed because, duh, he's a human being! And then I accepted it as part of my naivety due to my sheltered upbringing. And then it was like a gate opened and I stopped being afraid of leaving that sphere.
And I'm glad for it because now I am AWARE and because of that I have to be honest.
And, of course, this experience led me to give that poor Cajun bastard boy a chance (that and his very fine set of legs!). He was a good investment...he's enriched my life, has been a good husband and father. And now I have a 48 year old mother in law! She's an energetic grandmother!
As to the question of, is white privelege discussed at the dinner table? In MY house it is, though more in terms of how others are disadvantaged. But you go to my parent's house, or any one of my brothers and sisters houses....nope. They're talking about their lives and their kids, etc. They give no sign they're thinking about it...but that doesn't mean they aren't. After all....I didn't talk about all this much until today, other than with my husband. So most people would imagine I wasn't talking about it either.
To all the posters, thank you for having such a great dialogue. The honesty and the thoughts being expressed are truly great. I just wanted to say that because with dialogue comes greater understanding, and I don't mean that the understanding has to come from different races. There are things that some of the posters have said, like Atlantasfinest and Mike Jones 1999 with whom (I believe) we share the same heritage, that have helped to reaffirm the vastly different experiences that we have but the similar road that we walk. The honesty of Plessthanpointohfive is truly refreshing, as well as Atlantagreg30127, whose letting us know his experience and how he views things. Also all of the other posters, whom I can't think of offhand at the moment that have contributed and brought their own experience to the table. Thanks again because this is an informative thread too me.
Sure, whatever, we get it... you don't consider yourself a white man. But the bottom line is, you're not black. So YOU shouldn't assume anything about the black man, or really even give an opinion about what life is like for the black man (or woman). When you walk into a store, an interview, or are looked at by a cop when you're driving down the highway, whatever the heck you are...you obviously aren't black. Don't tell anyone to get over it or move passed it. I don't think your Native American ancestors appreciated it when the white man said the same thing to them as they were stealing their land.
It absolutely boggles my mind how many people think they aren't racist, yet obviously have no clear definition of all that word encompasses. The bottom line is that, if you have never walked a day in the life of someone black, you will NEVER know what it means. And pretending to have even a little sense of it, is offensive to those who can never escape its prejudices.
Sure, whatever, we get it... you don't consider yourself a white man. But the bottom line is, you're not black. So YOU shouldn't assume anything about the black man, or really even give an opinion about what life is like for the black man (or woman). When you walk into a store, an interview, or are looked at by a cop when you're driving down the highway, whatever the heck you are...you obviously aren't black. Don't tell anyone to get over it or move passed it. I don't think your Native American ancestors appreciated it when the white man said the same thing to them as they were stealing their land.
It absolutely boggles my mind how many people think they aren't racist, yet obviously have no clear definition of all that word encompasses. The bottom line is that, if you have never walked a day in the life of someone black, you will NEVER know what it means. And pretending to have even a little sense of it, is offensive to those who can never escape its prejudices.
AG, I guess if you've got so much Native American in you then you're not white, right? I'm always unsure how this label works. When I was a much younger and thinner girl I remember a black friend of mine (a BOY, naturally) telling me that I must have SOME black in my heritage because how did I get my bubble butt? LOL! Now, I know he was kidding but...heck, sometimes it seems that the "rules" regarding who is what race seem to go that way....
I believe it was Huey Long who said that the "pure white" population of Louisiana could be fed with a nickel's worth of red beans and a dime's worth of rice."
I have to admit that I don't know if it's because I am honest or because I am AWARE. Before I met my husband I was raised in the lily white (pun intended) Cleaver type family. My knowledge and impression of the "other side" was influence by my parents and my lily white experience. Now, my parents are what I think of as new generation non-racists - meaning they know it's wrong to have any kind of racial mindset and they try not to...but they were raised in the 50s so some of THEIR childhood bleeds through. I grew up with THEIR struggle to good people and sometimes saying racist things. When you're very young you don't see this as good or bad or as anything that needs a label.
But my parents did raise me to be a kind person to everyone. And I think this was a good start for me that allowed me to later open my mind and try to understand where others were coming from.
I really started becoming aware of how good I had it when I went to college. AFter all, I'd gone to private school my whole life, surrounded by people just like me. But I went to a public college (because it had a good biology program and I thought I wanted to be a doctor!). Once there I met so many people, black and white and other, who just didn't have the background I have. I saw people who struggled enormously just to get into college and here I was, with my tuition paid for, my rent paid for, my meal plan paid for, and my books paid for and with a monthly stipend - FROM MY PARENTS. How could I complain about my circumstances??? How could I not admire them?
And I saw people fail, too, because they didn't have what I did. Saw them drop out of college to get a job to help mom pay the rent. Saw them give up hope, sometimes.
And, here's an embarrassing admission, I didn't have ANY black friends until I went to college. Not a one. There were black kids in my private school, sure, and I was FRIENDLY with them, but none of them were my FRIENDS. This wasn't because I didn't want to be friends with them so much as I was just an insecure teenager who didn't want to leave my tiny safe sphere.
It wasn't until college that I became true friends with a black person (that naughty boy I mentioned earlier!). And you know what's even more embarrassing??? I can remember the thought passing through my mind that "He's just like me. He thinks, feels, reacts...we're not that different."
I have to say that first I was sort of shocked that I would have that thought. Then I was ashamed because, duh, he's a human being! And then I accepted it as part of my naivety due to my sheltered upbringing. And then it was like a gate opened and I stopped being afraid of leaving that sphere.
And I'm glad for it because now I am AWARE and because of that I have to be honest.
And, of course, this experience led me to give that poor Cajun bastard boy a chance (that and his very fine set of legs!). He was a good investment...he's enriched my life, has been a good husband and father. And now I have a 48 year old mother in law! She's an energetic grandmother!
As to the question of, is white privelege discussed at the dinner table? In MY house it is, though more in terms of how others are disadvantaged. But you go to my parent's house, or any one of my brothers and sisters houses....nope. They're talking about their lives and their kids, etc. They give no sign they're thinking about it...but that doesn't mean they aren't. After all....I didn't talk about all this much until today, other than with my husband. So most people would imagine I wasn't talking about it either.
It's wrong to have any type of a racial mindset? That's part of who the person is. The group level. Don't blacks, "Hispanics", Asians, etc. have a racial mindset? Therefore, isn't it okay for people of European descent to as well?
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