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Old 09-29-2013, 07:18 PM
 
Location: 30312
2,431 posts, read 3,813,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastminutemom View Post
I tried to answer the question on private schools. I see little value in private school elementary schools if you are in a good school and your child is doing well there.

I don' t think you find the wealthiest families in Atlanta in intown public schools, especially high school. But there are many middle class families in public school in Atlanta.

You have picked a strange combination of private schools. Friends and AIS generally don't attract the same audience. The students who attend those schools aren't worse off than those who attend solid public schools. The question is are they $______ off? Clearly many of these families are making a choice. If they have a couple of children, the 40000 they are spending for tuition a year could easily move them into a different school district.

I am going to answer your last question with maybe (and I wouldn't put N. Springs in the same category as Lassister by the way). If a child can find peers that can encourage and support a high school career focused on academic success then a child can be successful anywhere. It may be easier to find that peer group at a suburban high school that has little economic diversity and few poor people but it might not be.

Have you seen this piece from the NY Times? While I would argue that we don't really have a school like Dalton (Westminster might be close), it is an interesting perspective about an African American's family's journey through a high-end, college prep private school. I think it speaks to the advantages and disadvantages better than I can. This is just an excerpt, the full link will be on PBS next year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/op...?ref=education
Interesting points... So now I'm left with the following questions:

1. Is it a higher number of poorer/undesirable students that keeps Druid Hills and Grady (for example) from being the same caliber as North Fulton or East Cobb high schools?

2. If jobs and commute were not an issue, and a family that wants a quality education earns $100k a year, why would they buy a $300k+ home in Grant Park, Edgewood, or Kirkwood, then pay an additional "$40,000" for private school when they can buy a (likely larger) home in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, or Alpharetta and send their kids to a comparable public school. I guess they would save on gas, etc., but is the intown lifestyle worth the extra $40k? Then that leads me to wonder if families that live intown and do this just generally have more money for these types of expenditures than many suburban families that choose public school (generally speaking)?

3. Is there such a thing as an "undesirable" private school? Which ones do many feel are not worth the money and why?
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:43 PM
 
3,972 posts, read 12,601,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
Interesting points... So now I'm left with the following questions:

1. Is it a higher number of poorer/undesirable students that keeps Druid Hills and Grady (for example) from being the same caliber as North Fulton or East Cobb high schools?

Let's not call them undesirable. Cause they really aren't. They are often disadvantaged and come less prepared to high school for a host of reasons. There are often no expectations from the home and that makes things complicated. Until the last few years, and I am sure some would still argue this, I believed that top students at any of the strong DeKalb high schools would get an education equal to the schools in N. Fulton or Cobb, etc. However, with the recent troubles in DeKalb, I am less confident this is so. Druid Hills High School had an SAT average of 1400 in the most recent report. (That is for all three sections. Good teachers are fleeing DCSS, 1000 left after school ended last year. The experience a student has at Grady vs Milton are probably very different. Good students at Grady are big fish in small pond while good students at Milton are probably a dime a dozen.

The biggest challenge, in my opinion, at economically diverse schools is not for the kids at the top or the bottom, but in the middle. Having done some scattergrams of test scores at elementary schools that sit on the perimeter years ago, you would be surprised how many kids were in the top quarter and how many were in the bottom quarter, but how few were in the middle. In an economically diverse high school, sometimes the only way to get into a class with serious students is to take the highest level. And if you are not AP material, that is a difficult situation. For the record, though I know families in both the Walton and Northview districts who have chosen to send at least one child to private school because their kids weren't top students and they felt like the best teachers were in the top classes. Also, they worried about their kids self image.


2. If jobs and commute were not an issue, and a family that wants a quality education earns $100k a year, why would they buy a $300k+ home in Grant Park, Edgewood, or Kirkwood, then pay an additional "$40,000" for private school when they can buy a (likely larger) home in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, or Alpharetta and send their kids to a comparable public school. I guess they would save on gas, etc., but is the intown lifestyle worth the extra $40k? Then that leads me to wonder if families that live intown and do this just generally have more money for these types of expenditures than many suburban families that choose public school (generally speaking)?

This is a complicated one. First, there are parents who went to private school and that is what they want for their children. Second, I don't think we know yet what will happen with Jackson as the young families who are there now see their children aging. Time will tell. Finally, I think families facing two children in private school with an income of 100K do not necessarily find that it is doable. And they move. Or they use public school. Or they work to start a charter school...

3. Is there such a thing as an "undesirable" private school? Which ones do many feel are not worth the money and why?
This is very subjective. Before I had a child in private school, I use to say that the only way I would use private schools is if we went to a certain type of school. (top tier). As this child grew, I realized that what he needed wasn't top tier and we needed to find a school that met his needs.

One of the "benefits" of private school is that the parent is the consumer. Though your child has to be accepted, you drive the ship. You can look at each school and determine if it is a good fit for you, your child and your family.

For the record, there are lots of private schools that offer even less than public schools, in terms of extras. However, parents choose them for lots of reasons, religion, safety, class size, location, etc. They aren't necessarily schools I would choose but lots of parents do.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,050 posts, read 1,681,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
Interesting points... So now I'm left with the following questions:

1. Is it a higher number of poorer/undesirable students that keeps Druid Hills and Grady (for example) from being the same caliber as North Fulton or East Cobb high schools?

The poverty/lifestyles of some students does change the perceptions of certain schools. There are cultural differences between people who buy in suburbs and these in town areas. Many people who buy in Buckhead expect to use private(and they come from a private school culture), but people who buy in Roswell generally expect to use public(and they come from a public school culture).

2. If jobs and commute were not an issue, and a family that wants a quality education earns $100k a year, why would they buy a $300k+ home in Grant Park, Edgewood, or Kirkwood, then pay an additional "$40,000" for private school when they can buy a (likely larger) home in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, or Alpharetta and send their kids to a comparable public school. I guess they would save on gas, etc., but is the intown lifestyle worth the extra $40k? Then that leads me to wonder if families that live intown and do this just generally have more money for these types of expenditures than many suburban families that choose public school (generally speaking)?

You could never afford to live in town making 100k with two children in private school. It is not uncommon for grandparents to pay for educational expenses in wealthier areas even if the parents can afford the school(educational expenses are not counted towards gift/estate tax exemptions). In all honesty you do not meet families from the in town neighborhoods you listed at the 20k private schools. Dunwoody and Sandy Springs are very well represented at the top ITP private schools. You also have a good amount of Alpharetta/Johns Creek/Duluth students at certain ITP private schools.

3. Is there such a thing as an "undesirable" private school? Which ones do many feel are not worth the money and why?
My wife and I consider far left/non traditional schools undesirable. We are not the types that use those schools we will say. We also find hippie learning a bunch of crap to spell it out. There is a certain progressive private school in Atlanta that practically indoctrinates the children into a far left political ideology. But there are really no undesirable schools.

Last edited by GeorgiaLakeSearch; 09-30-2013 at 08:37 AM.. Reason: left out the why
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:26 AM
 
2,302 posts, read 2,961,418 times
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I think there are right and wrong schools for each child. I know one family who moved their child from a well-respected private k-12 to a suburban "mediocre" high school bc that high school offered higher level math classes their child needed. I know another family who moved their child from a "top-tier" public elementary to a relatively unknown small Christian school because the child needed more personal attention. . .My child moved from a top-tier private to a special ed school for learning disabilities. It's all about the school being a fit for the child's needs and the family's values and resources. The only truly "undesirable" schools--public or private-- are the ones in total crisis.

Jackson High is going to serve some kids well and fail others. Westminster will be heaven for some and hell for others. Families who apply to Whitefield aren't going to apply to Galloway...It isn't all about a ranking 1-10.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:41 AM
 
550 posts, read 983,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaLakeSearch View Post
My wife and I consider far left/non traditional schools undesirable. We are not the types that use those schools we will say. We also find hippie learning a bunch of crap to spell it out. There is a certain progressive private school in Atlanta that practically indoctrinates the children into a far left political ideology. But there are really no undesirable schools.
Ha! I would describe it differently but that is my dream school. I think it would have been a wonderful fit for 2 of my children. That said, we are happy with Walton and I believe my daughter will thrive there starting next year.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,730 posts, read 13,261,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
Last I heard, Ansley Park, Inman Park, Candler Park, and even Grant Park and certain pockets of Kirkwood are pretty affluent areas. Are you saying that none of these families would send their children to the local schools, (like the Grady, Jackson, or Druid Hills clusters) with the hope of succeeding.
Many families in Ansley Park (I cannot speak for other areas) will and do send their elementary students to Morningside Elementary. However, very many of those families (I haven't done a study so I cannot say "most" or otherwise) go on to send those students to private schools for junior high and high school. I'm not saying that this is an indication of school quality - simply that is what goes on.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:13 AM
 
2,167 posts, read 2,813,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post

2. If jobs and commute were not an issue, and a family that wants a quality education earns $100k a year, why would they buy a $300k+ home in Grant Park, Edgewood, or Kirkwood, then pay an additional "$40,000" for private school when they can buy a (likely larger) home in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, or Alpharetta and send their kids to a comparable public school. I guess they would save on gas, etc., but is the intown lifestyle worth the extra $40k? Then that leads me to wonder if families that live intown and do this just generally have more money for these types of expenditures than many suburban families that choose public school (generally speaking)?
If jobs and commutes were not an issue, it'd be a much different conversation. But, since roughly 50% of the posts here seem to be related to jobs, traffic, and commutes, it very clearly is a big issue. Commute, schools, and safety are probably at or near the top of the decision factor list for a majority of homebuyers. You can't really have this discussion in a vacuum that ignores one of them.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,578 posts, read 5,618,102 times
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Define "intown private" -- are you talking about Westminster and Lovett?

In all of the scenarios you mention, you have parents who are highly motivated to ensure that their children receive the best education possible. So I don't think you are comparing apples to apples. Some families choose private schools for reasons other than academic -- they may value a religious component to their child's education, or they are stuck in an area where the schools aren't providing opportunities that the parents feel are important (i.e., a well-organized gifted program, etc.) It's not always straight academics.

There are trade-offs for every educational choice -- there's seldom one school that will check all the boxes, and the boxes can vary in importance within a family, and sometimes from child to child within the same family.
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: 30312
2,431 posts, read 3,813,508 times
Reputation: 1996
Quote:
Originally Posted by red92s View Post
If jobs and commutes were not an issue, it'd be a much different conversation. But, since roughly 50% of the posts here seem to be related to jobs, traffic, and commutes, it very clearly is a big issue. Commute, schools, and safety are probably at or near the top of the decision factor list for a majority of homebuyers. You can't really have this discussion in a vacuum that ignores one of them.
Duly noted. To put it in some perspective, my wife and I are both teachers (so that somewhat opens a wide range of locations for potential employment). You are right that schools and safety are important and we would really prefer to live intown -- particularly the areas I previously mentioned (GP, KWD, Edgewood, Ormewood Park, East Lake, etc.). But the big question for us is, "Is it worth it?" Again, why would a family pay over $300k for a home in an area that is perceived as not safe and has poor schools? Yet many do.

We get so many mixed signals that it's hard for us to make up our mind. Perhaps we simply cannot afford the lifestyle that we envision for ourselves. Then, on the the other hand, I see many families that make way less than us thriving in these areas. $300k is the top of our budget and when I see a home selling for nearly half a million on Whitefoord or Hill St., I tend to wonder who is buying these homes.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,050 posts, read 1,681,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dblackga View Post
Define "intown private" -- are you talking about Westminster and Lovett?

In all of the scenarios you mention, you have parents who are highly motivated to ensure that their children receive the best education possible. So I don't think you are comparing apples to apples. Some families choose private schools for reasons other than academic -- they may value a religious component to their child's education, or they are stuck in an area where the schools aren't providing opportunities that the parents feel are important (i.e., a well-organized gifted program, etc.) It's not always straight academics.

There are trade-offs for every educational choice -- there's seldom one school that will check all the boxes, and the boxes can vary in importance within a family, and sometimes from child to child within the same family.
Intown/ITP private would be Westminster, Lovett, Pace, Galloway, Paideia, Woodward(also has lower campus in Johns Creek), Holy Innocents, Atlanta Girls, Atlanta International School, etc..

Suburban/OTP would be Greater Atlanta Christian, Wesleyan, there is another big Christian school in Alpharetta I cannot remember the name of, Mount Paran School(Cobb), etc.

The notable suburban privates seem to be more evangelical from what I have heard.
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