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Old 10-01-2013, 01:03 PM
 
1,151 posts, read 934,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamills21 View Post
You need to take LA and Houston off that list. Atlanta has a good downtown for Southern cities but compared to LA & Houston is greatly lacking. At one point LA did have the worst DT in the nation but with the improvements made in the last 10 years DTLA will probably be one of the best in the country easily very soon. In the case of LA, the things to do in DTLA probably surpass things to do in Midtown, & 5 points combined. If you tell me that DTLA is worse than ATL than you havent been to LA in the last 5 years. People also don't understand that LA is way more progressive than ATL when it comes to revitalizing their Downtown, Urbanizing Neighborhoods and hooking it up by rail with the rest of the County.
The heck is good about Houston's downtown?

Also, what on earth is in LAs downtown for tourist?
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,322 posts, read 2,186,047 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
While I won't disagree that LA has done a great job with revitalizing their Downtown in the last decade, I would say that Downtown Atlanta and Los Angeles are at least equals now. Your point about rail is an odd one given Downtown Atlanta has two subway lines connecting it to the rest of City/Fulton and Dekalb county...and did it 20 years before LA even started.

I am not clear as to why you say DT Houston should taken off that list. It's no where near DT Atlanta in terms of vibrancy/things to do.

DTLA and DT ATL are not equals....It's actually not even close. DT ATL def has some good things going on do not get me wrong. I lived in ATL for 5 years (left in 2011) and went back about a month ago; I Love ATL. The comparison however is just not there. ATL does not have a Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Arts District, Flower District, Fashion District, Jewelry District, or an Olviera St. Also places like South Park ( LA live/Staples Center), The Revitalized Historic Core and a Historic Theater District (2nd to NY in US).

LA has had to play catch up since the re-introduction of commuter rail in 1990. However, The system has opened up a new rail line every two or three years for the last 20 years. At this point, the system is expansive enough that if you live and work along one of the lines that you can live in Los Angeles without a car. With the passage of Measure-R, the half-cent sales tax which LA County voters approved with 66% of the vote (taxes at work), by next year we will have about 4 rail lines under construction at the same time. The most exciting is the currently half-way done Expo line phase II which will connect DTLA and DT Santa Monica for the first time in over 50 years.

Edit: I shouldn't have said Houston...My bad

Last edited by jamills21; 10-01-2013 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:25 PM
 
6,797 posts, read 6,638,795 times
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It's not close. I was in LA last year in August....Downtown LA was much more vibrant, better streetscapes, and felt like a real big city. It also has an amazing historical fabric.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:54 PM
 
3,453 posts, read 2,993,080 times
Reputation: 1645
Why does everyone on City data have high certain expectations for Atlanta that they don't hold for other cities. I'm just curious, to everyone who travels do you go to other City threads telling them how much there cities suck and what they need to do to be like Philly NYC SF etc or is this something most people just do to Atlanta.

Last edited by Staysean23; 10-01-2013 at 02:03 PM..
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,322 posts, read 2,186,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staysean23 View Post
Why does everyone on City data high certain expectations for Atlanta that they dont hold for other cities. Im just curious to everyone who travels do you go to other City threads telling them how much there cities suck and what they need to do to be like Philly NYC SF etc or is this something most people just do to Atlanta.
I guess in my case (Los Angeles), I was just responding to somebody who put LA on a list that it shouldn't have been on. DT ATL is great! I used go on these forums but not comment all the time when I lived in ATL and was always a booster. To me at least, it seems like ATL can dish but doesn't like to receive criticism. You can be critical, compare it with other cities, while at the same time loving the city.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,201 posts, read 16,052,084 times
Reputation: 9214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
OK, maybe it's because I'm from Atlanta, but I never go to ANY city looking to be entertained downtown. If it has a great downtown, HOORAY! But that's not gonna be my first place to look!

Would anybody actually think to go to downtown Miami? NO! Downtown Orlando? NO! Downtown LA? NO! Downtown (CBD) New Orleans? NO! Downtown Vegas? HELL TO THE NO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhammaster View Post
Would anybody actually think to go to downtown Miami? NO! Downtown Orlando? NO! Downtown LA? NO! Downtown (CBD) New Orleans? NO! Downtown Vegas? HELL TO THE NO!

So why would Atlanta be an exception? Research first.
Uh ... Dude ... why did you plagiarize me?!
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,201 posts, read 16,052,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Why do questions on this board always seem to be posted in the negative - "Does Atlanta have the worst..." Why can't we phrase things a bit more positively - "Which city in the Southeast has the best big city downtown?" Just sayin'
Does Atlanta have the WORST critics in the nation? YES!
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,201 posts, read 16,052,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Houston only has a bunch of skyscrapers. That doesn't make a downtown great. It is definitely less vibrant than Atlanta's downtown. Atlanta's downtown actually has a healthy tourist base and is structurally denser IMHO with it's tighter streets. I was in Houston recently. A whole area of DT Houston is dedicated to surfaces lots.

Atlanta's core is definitely denser than Houston's core. I looked at the census tracts of both cities and Atlanta had many more 10k+ census tracts. You can even go to walkscore and DT Atlanta has a whole 10 points over DT Houston as far as walkability, let alone many more walkable neighborhoods.

I mean, think about it. Our new ferris wheel would not get many people if it didn't have a large tourist base in the downtown area. People really underestimate just how many tourists Atlanta gets.
Pigs just flew, hell froze over ... and Ant had something positive to say about Atlanta!
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:53 PM
 
512 posts, read 820,444 times
Reputation: 346
WOWWOWOWWWOW... I just started this thread yesterday and it already has 7 pages.

A couple of points.

1) I did do my research and knew there were alot of tourist things to do in downtown ATL. But i also like walking the streets like i do in every city i visit. I could have guessed the response i would have gotten on Citydata from people pushing neighborhoods outside downtown. I didnt have a car and didnt want to mess with the bus system.
2) Bashing Philly and me does not make downtown ATL better. Philly has loads of problems but its downtown is its strength, something to be showed off with pride.
3) Downtown ATL was built before the car just like Philly but Philly didnt bull doze so much after WWII (just wasnt as prosperous i guess).
4) Saying that Atlanta is great because its has some good neighborhoods, a strong economy, and lots of tourist attractions does not mean it has a good downtown.
5) People visit Philly with lower expectations and are blown away by downtown (called Center City) and other neighborhoods. ATL boosts alot which leads to high expectations that are really let down when visiting.
6) Clearly i struck a nerve to be getting this much attention. If you guys just admit Dowtown ATL has real problems that need addressing, i think the downtown could be better. Philly did this 25 years ago with the creation of Center City District and putting the pedestrian fist over the car.
7) Maybe it was a mistake of phrasing the topic as Is ATL the worst. I will be visiting Nashville, Orlando, Tampa, and Miami shortly and from my research (given the size of the regions and their reputations) i should be pleasantly surprised by their downtowns.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,809 posts, read 11,787,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamills21 View Post
DTLA and DT ATL are not equals....It's actually not even close. DT ATL def has some good things going on do not get me wrong. I lived in ATL for 5 years (left in 2011) and went back about a month ago; I Love ATL. The comparison however is just not there. ATL does not have a Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Arts District, Flower District, Fashion District, Jewelry District, or an Olviera St. Also places like South Park ( LA live/Staples Center), The Revitalized Historic Core and a Historic Theater District (2nd to NY in US).
Well obviously the scale of Downtown LA is larger than Downtown Atlanta is much larger given the district in LA is around 10 square miles to DT Atlanta's 3 square miles. As you mentioned, there are a lot more areas to Dowtown LA (though I would argue about Chinatown since it is separated from the main part of DT LA by a huge freeway gulch and isn't a showcase place like Chinatowns in NYC or SF sadly given LA's rich Chinese history), but that is due to it's over all size. If you were to blow up Downtown Atlanta to the size of Downtown LA it would encompass all of Midtown and much of the near eastside.

What I was talking about was more it's position in the overall city and general vibe. DT LA has had success with the revitalization of the Historic Core and the development of the area around LA Live just like DT Atlanta has had success with the revitalization of Fairlie-Poplar and the development the CoP areas respectively.

It also has it's major problems too just like us. Skid Row is to DT LA as South Downtown and Pine Street is DT Atlanta (though, Skid Row blows our problems out the water). Just like Atlanta, the activity in LA is spread out throughout the city, and the most desirable areas are not Downtown and high end retail is elsewhere. While there has been a lot of development in both DTs, both still are plagued with gaps in development and an overabundance of surface parking lots.

So in that respect, they are equals. Obviously though there is a disparity in scale given LA is the second largest city in the country. It's kind of interesting to see objectively though how both Downtowns have fared over the last half century going through similar boom, bust and resurgent eras roughly along the same time line.

I will grant you though the major bonus DT LA has over DT Atlanta is the Fashion District. I wish we had something similar here in the South Downtown area. Though, I hope if it did come to pass it would look more like SoHo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamills21 View Post
LA has had to play catch up since the re-introduction of commuter rail in 1990. However, The system has opened up a new rail line every two or three years for the last 20 years. At this point, the system is expansive enough that if you live and work along one of the lines that you can live in Los Angeles without a car. With the passage of Measure-R, the half-cent sales tax which LA County voters approved with 66% of the vote (taxes at work), by next year we will have about 4 rail lines under construction at the same time. The most exciting is the currently half-way done Expo line phase II which will connect DTLA and DT Santa Monica for the first time in over 50 years.

Edit: I shouldn't have said Houston...My bad
While true, LA is far behind Atlanta. While TSPLOST failed, the city is still moving forward with the streetcars and the Beltline. I think once those two networks are built out will ultimately be more successful than what LA is doing given we luckily built out a more expansive subway system in MARTA than LA's subway will ever be. I am envious of LA bus system though. It's truly great and it gets ragged on too much I think.
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