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Old 10-04-2013, 06:38 AM
 
6,180 posts, read 5,560,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
in terms of distance away from atlanta, yes.

a previous poster said that potentially atlanta could extend to augusta, for example. this is patently absurd. people commute to work, and there's only so far people can commute back and forth to work everyday. right now, the distance seems to be about 40 miles from their jobs. any further than this and you see a serious dropoff in development. people are not going to commute that far to work everyday in traffic.

could commuter rail change this? yes, but even then, you'd only see "sprawl" around commuter rail stations and not extending directly from the atlanta area.
This is a key point.

The implementation of regional commuter rail service in the Atlanta region would likely contribute to "sprawl" in the form of varying degrees of both transit-friendly higher-density development and automobile-focused lower-density development around exurban commuter rail stations as is the case in the large population centers of Northern and Northeastern North America.

The irony is that the implementation of regional commuter rail service between the urban core and the exurban/semi-rural periphery of a major population center like the Atlanta region (which is currently the largest metro area and metro region east of the Mississippi River without regional commuter rail service) would both take vehicles off of the roads (by providing an alternative to longer-distance single-occupant vehicle commuting) while helping to put more vehicles on the roads (with the increased traffic-generating development that would go up around outer-suburban and exurban commuter rail stations).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
could the I-85 corridor continue to densify making job centers further out from atlanta? yes, it's very possible that along the I-85 corridor especially, that you would see cities like commerce pop up as job centers, potentially bringing sprawl to far-fetched areas. but such a densification wouldn't be "part of atlanta" since those commuting to jobs would not be commuting to jobs in the atlanta area.

that's generally how new areas are determined to be part of the metro area— whether or not people are commuting to jobs in the central metro area.

in the case of atlanta, it's gotten about as far as it can go. i can't see it going any further unless job centers start moving outwards also.
It's interesting that you mention an outlying city like Commerce as possibly being a future job center if the Atlanta region continues to sprawl as a growing amount of commercial and industrial development is popping up in small clusters in the Braselton and Jefferson areas of Jackson County (Commerce's home county) which has become the site of multiple large distribution centers for major companies that do much business in the Northeast Metro Atlanta region.

List of Jackson County, Georgia's Top Employers:
Jackson County Top Employers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
I also agree with the findings and arguments of the researchers that demand for walkable and transit-friendly higher-density development is increasing sharply as society changes with the public growing increasingly vary of long rush-hour and peak-hour commutes to and from work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot View Post
This is what has me thinking that, while we haven't reached our peak sprawl capacity [no geographic barriers, etc], we have reached the periphery of how far out people are willing to go, vis a vis, how much of their income is spent on gas, how long their willing to put up with sitting in a car, etc.
This is a good point.

Many people, if they have the option, are choosing to live closer to where they work if and where possible.

But the bad news is that over the long-term there is the potential for rush-hour commutes to lengthen as the city and urban core of Metro Atlanta continues to become a more desirable place to live, increases in population and sees greater demand for housing Intown, causing home prices to rise within I-285 and become less affordable for some workers who might have little choice but to look for housing farther outside of the urban core as is commonly the case in larger metro areas on the Eastern Seaboard and on the West Coast where workers have to make long commutes between outlying areas and job centers in the urban core out of necessity.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
Have We Reached Peak Sprawl?
Yes.

Sure there will be plenty of new strip malls and McMansions built in the outer burbs, but they have peaked. Development is decidedly shifted back inward on urbanizing the inner suburbs and re-populating the city.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,027 posts, read 9,346,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Yes.

Sure there will be plenty of new strip malls and McMansions built in the outer burbs, but they have peaked. Development is decidedly shifted back inward on urbanizing the inner suburbs and re-populating the city.
There are 100+ home developments being built in Forsyth, east Gwinnett and other such places. Suburban living hasn't stagnated. It's growing. Perhaps not as rapidly or haphazardly as it did over the past 30 years (let's hope not!!!!!), but it will continue to grow. We can't force all newcomers to live intown.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,437 posts, read 17,582,404 times
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Quote:
We can't force all newcomers to live intown.
Yes we can, by enacting an urban growth boundary.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:54 AM
 
10,590 posts, read 7,525,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
There are 100+ home developments being built in Forsyth, east Gwinnett and other such places. Suburban living hasn't stagnated. It's growing. Perhaps not as rapidly or haphazardly as it did over the past 30 years (let's hope not!!!!!), but it will continue to grow. We can't force all newcomers to live intown.
Sure. "Peak" does not mean it has stopped building in the burbs. It just means instead of accelerating growth, we are seeing decelerating growth. The great thing about the market is it will build where people want to live, and more and more people seem to be shifting towards walk-able closer in developments.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:57 AM
 
10,590 posts, read 7,525,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Yes we can, by enacting an urban growth boundary.
We don't need this. We just need people to pay the full cost of their commute. Very few are going to choose $100 less in rent if it costs them $300 extra a month to get to work. And for those that do, good for them. Let them pay to live that lifestyle if that is what they want.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
2,009 posts, read 2,146,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
We don't need this. We just need people to pay the full cost of their commute. Very few are going to choose $100 less in rent if it costs them $300 extra a month to get to work. And for those that do, good for them. Let them pay to live that lifestyle if that is what they want.
That isn't sustainable, which is why large, successful cities have cheap, public, mass transit
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:25 AM
 
10,590 posts, read 7,525,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzanman View Post
That isn't sustainable, which is why large, successful cities have cheap, public, mass transit
Do you mean we have to have a subsidized, government run transit system to be a successful city? Do you think we can settle to only be as successful as Hong Kong or Tokyo where the fares cover 186% and 175% of the cost running the system? (Yes, that is right, their profit margin is higher than many private companies out there).

BTW, here is the stock if you want to invest: 66:Hong Kong Stock Quote - MTR Corp Ltd - Bloomberg
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,027 posts, read 9,346,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Yes we can, by enacting an urban growth boundary.
If this definition from Wikipedia is correct, I'm not sure that this will do anything but promote intown density.

"An urban growth boundary, or UGB, is a regional boundary, set in an attempt to control urban sprawl by mandating that the area inside the boundary be used for higher density urban development and the area outside be used for lower density development."
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,243 posts, read 4,642,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Yes we can, by enacting an urban growth boundary.
Yeah, but that will never happen here.

We just don't need to subsidize sprawl.
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