AJC: Kennesaw State and Southern Poly to Merge (Griffin: universities, live)

[billl]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Downgrading a school with a very good local reputation to an add on to a school like Kennesaw State which has very little reputation anywhere, except as a fallback school for those who don't get into UGA, is foolish and will be bad for the state.

US News ranks KSU higher than SPSU.

Forbes lists KSU in its rankings of "America's Top Colleges" (pretty far down, but it is there) yet it does not list SPSU.

University System of Georgia lists KSU as a comprehensive university (tier 2), ahead of SPSU (a tier 3 state university).

I count at least four doctoral programs at KSU (including a PhD) and none at SPSU.

There was a time when KSU (or the colleges that preceded it) had little to no reputation. But those days are past. It is a rapidly growing university and is getting national recognition.

[#1MARTAFan]

Originally Posted by billl

US News ranks KSU higher than SPSU.

Forbes lists KSU in its rankings of "America's Top Colleges" (pretty far down, but it is there) yet it does not list SPSU.

University System of Georgia lists KSU as a comprehensive university (tier 2), ahead of SPSU (a tier 3 state university).

I count at least four doctoral programs at KSU (including a PhD) and none at SPSU.

There was a time when KSU (or the colleges that preceded it) had little to no reputation. But those days are past. It is a rapidly growing university and is getting national recognition.

SPSU is a niche school that fills a very important role for Georgia.

This is not hard to understand.

Do you think that SPSU is going to get better or worse by joining KSU?

SPSU offers a pretty damn good ROI for a "Tier 3" college. College Education Value Rankings - PayScale 2013 College ROI Report

SPSU #99 vs. KSU at #756

What about career earnings:

SPSU #136 vs. KSU #753

Not bad for a Tier 3 school with no reputation.


USNWR as your reference on what makes a good college is either laziness and shows a lack of understanding of college rankings... or both.

[billl]

Originally Posted by #1MARTAFan

SPSU is a niche school that fills a very important role for Georgia.

This is not hard to understand.

Do you think that SPSU is going to get better or worse by joining KSU?

I think SPSU students are understandably upset. But I think that in their anger they are making comments about KSU that are factually untrue.

I also think everyone needs to remember this was not a decision made by KSU or SPSU. It was a decision made by the board of regents. To blame KSU for it is directing your energies in the wrong place.

SPSU offers a pretty damn good ROI for a "Tier 3" college. College Education Value Rankings - PayScale 2013 College ROI Report

SPSU #99 vs. KSU at #756

What about career earnings:

SPSU #136 vs. KSU #753

Not bad for a Tier 3 school with no reputation.


USNWR as your reference on what makes a good college is either laziness and shows a lack of understanding of college rankings... or both.

Perhaps you should learn to read.

I never said SPSU had "no reputation". I never claimed that USNWR was an indicator of a good college (a rank of #69 of southern universities is not all that great).

Characterizing KSU as having "very little reputation anywhere" is just wrong.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by billl

I think SPSU students are understandably upset. But I think that in their anger they are making comments about KSU that are factually untrue.

I also think everyone needs to remember this was not a decision made by KSU or SPSU. It was a decision made by the board of regents. To blame KSU for it is directing your energies in the wrong place.

Was this not a KSU power grab?

If you don't think they lobbied for this, you are naive.

Perhaps you should learn to read.

I never said SPSU had "no reputation". I never claimed that USNWR was an indicator of a good college (a rank of #69 of southern universities is not all that great).

Characterizing KSU as having "very little reputation anywhere" is just wrong.

Then why use USNWR as your metric? If you know it is inaccurate and poor, why use it?

Hell, Forbes is even more laughable as a source. Their methodology is hilariously simplistic and shows nothing of value.

KSU does have a reputation... as a breeding ground for dumb coed strippers. That has been the reputation for a long time. Is it starting to change? Sure, it is getting better, but it is still just a mediocre suburban, commuter school for those who couldn't get into their first choice schools.

[billl]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Then why use USNWR as your metric? If you know it is inaccurate and poor, why use it?

This was the only part of your post worthy of a response.

I used it as an example that KSU has some sort of recognition beyond Cobb County. Nothing more. I never offered any judgement on the accuracy of its rankings. That was someone else.

[AnsleyPark]

Something tells me that the folks who made this decision did so in a very informed manner. I don't think for a minute they set out to ignore the students and damage the two institutions. At least not based on what I've seen posted on this thread. I understand the emotional resistance to this, but I understand, too, the intellectual decision made. Now, whether it turns out to be good for all concerned is a different matter. I imagine that only time will tell.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Something tells me that the folks who made this decision did so in a very informed manner. I don't think for a minute they set out to ignore the students and damage the two institutions. At least not based on what I've seen posted on this thread. I understand the emotional resistance to this, but I understand, too, the intellectual decision made. Now, whether it turns out to be good for all concerned is a different matter. I imagine that only time will tell.

I just wonder if the BOR considered the long term repercussions? This will give KSU considerable academic weight with expanded programs and a large combined campus which will lead to future headbuttings with GSU. I mean KSU is being handed a complete 230 acre ready made campus which could give KSU dominance in the Atlanta market against one of the state's research universities, GSU. I just see this as favoring KSU and enervating GSU. One could say that would be fine in the spirit of free market competition, but this is government giving KSU a huge unfair advantage for which GSU is left to its own devices in response. The BOR who runs the game is picking a winner so to speak.

Part of the idea of this consolidation is to reduce internal competition between state schools. SPSU wasn't really competing with anyone, certainly not Tech. But I see this consolidation upsetting the USG Atlanta market by the BOR heavily favoring KSU and hurting GSU. Any consolidations should not affect other schools that are not a part of the merger, and in this case I think GSU will clearly be badly affected.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I just wonder if the BOR considered the long term repercussions? This will give KSU considerable academic weight with expanded programs and a large combined campus which will lead to future headbuttings with GSU. I mean KSU is being handed a complete 230 acre ready made campus which could give KSU dominance in the Atlanta market against one of the state's research universities, GSU. I just see this as favoring KSU and enervating GSU. One could say that would be fine in the spirit of free market competition, but this is government giving KSU a huge unfair advantage for which GSU is left to its own devices in response. The BOR who runs the game is picking a winner so to speak.

Part of the idea of this consolidation is to reduce internal competition between state schools. SPSU wasn't really competing with anyone, certainly not Tech. But I see this consolidation upsetting the USG Atlanta market by the BOR heavily favoring KSU and hurting GSU. Any consolidations should not affect other schools that are not a part of the merger, and in this case I think GSU will clearly be badly affected.

Why can't it be a both/and decision instead of an either/or? Wouldn't the phenomenal rate of growth in the last several decades in the whole of northern Georgia warrant two excellent universities? Why does one have to win and one have to lose in all of this?

[Newsboy]

OK, I'm going to plead total ignorance here. Lived in Georgia most all my life, and I have NEVER, EVER understood what Southern Poly was about. It always appeared to be nothing more than a glorified tech school to me. Not a GEORGIA TECH-type school, but a GRIFFIN TECH-type school. Am I missing something?

Not to take away from the school or the students, but it never had a clear mission or identity in my book. I didn't even know until last week that it had a mascot. Really? Do they play sports?!

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

OK, I'm going to plead total ignorance here. Lived in Georgia most all my life, and I have NEVER, EVER understood what Southern Poly was about. It always appeared to be nothing more than a glorified tech school to me. Not a GEORGIA TECH-type school, but a GRIFFIN TECH-type school. Am I missing something?

Big-time. Georgia Tech teaches you the theory of engineering and how to apply it, SPSU teaches you how to apply it. This is true across most of the schools including software engineering, mechanical, civil engineering, textile engineering, etc. The smaller classes and intense investment allow the students to touch the "hardware" early on in their academic career.

Not to take away from the school or the students, but it never had a clear mission or identity in my book. I didn't even know until last week that it had a mascot. Really? Do they play sports?!

There are a few sports teams, but that's far from the emphasis of the school. At SPSU, sports are the afterthought and the school definitely does not have a "jock" population the way other schools do. You can't immediately tell who's an athlete and who's not unlike many other schools. The Hornet though is more generally ingrained in the school than just the sports side of things.