Atlanta Braves moving? (Sandy Springs, Marietta: income tax, light rail, rated)

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by MattCW

You sure about that?

Yup. Cost overruns will kill their mixed use plans for sure. Looked what happened in Miami.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by westau

There is horrible congestion around downtown all the time too today that is worse than it is in Cobb.

Shots taken an hour before first pitch:

Originally Posted by westau

There is a good amount of parking around Wrigley, just in decks mostly hidden from the road. Go to parkwhiz.com and look at an event at Wrigley and you will probably find 20-30 parking options within a mile of the stadium.

20-30 parking options within a mile is a lot different than 30,000 spaces in a half mile. There will always be some amount of parking available anywhere.

[Jimmeh]

Does anyone know the percentage of those who show up to Turner Field for first pitch? I don't know when the last time I showed up on time for a Braves game, if ever. I also generally go to the game with three or more people in a car. There's enough in Cumberland and Vining's to chill before and after the game. Meaning not everyone has to leave at the same time.

Something else I didn't consider, there is an HOV exit that let's you off closer to Cobb Pkwy at Cumberland. Or get off at Cumberland and turn on Akers Mill or take it to Circle 75 or ride Galleria pkwy. You can get off at Windy Hill and be closer to the stadium, if they kept the roads they have now, there are numerous ways to get to the game, I feel like Turner didn't have those options, but then again I didn't really know the area. You can get off on Mt. Paran and even Northside pkwy.

Heck, I could ride from Northside drive/Howell Mill without touching the interstate and make it to Cobb Pkwy in 30 min during 6:30. Windy Hill can get you to Circle 75 and Windy Ridge, Herodian crosses cobb pkwy and circle 75, Cumberland Pkwy and Powers Ferry can get you there, and of course Cobb Pkwy can. The mile away transfer center still has bus stops all the way there.

All they need is a shuttle. Express drops you off in various areas here. I used Express to get and leave work when I used to carpool in Henry County. They could up the busses to alleviate some of it and that's not going to cost them what a rail system will. I'm more worried about Akers Mill NE. This is the main road traveled from Buckhead and Sandy Springs drivers taking back roads. Windy Hill for East and West Cobb is the only way to get to this area outside of Spring Rd for Austell rd. People could take the south Cobb drive exit and take Windy Hill to Cumberland.

[0nyxStation]

Originally Posted by gerrythesnake

That is absolutely BS lol. Trains are backed in all directions during game day. I would say at least 40%

I used to work for Marta in 2010 as a temp, no way is it 6 percent. NO WAY. I only saw the fans that traveled between Ham E Holmes and Underground it was a lot of people, Not sure what the Underground-Airport sides, Underground-Indian Creek & Underground-North Springs looked like. I dont even know if the Braves had a winning season in 2010, but I was at Marta from May-Sept 2010 and it at least 3 train sets (6 cars) would bring people to Ham E Holmes. 6% is a lie.

[BackInATL2011]

Saw on local tv news that the city council is meeting with the Braves to discuss a counter offer, even discussing the other previous option for the falcons stadium. That is of course a pipe dream but it would be amazing.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Yup. Cost overruns will kill their mixed use plans for sure. Looked what happened in Miami.

I don't normally quote myself (it's important to be humble when you're awesome ), but shortly after writing this I realized what has been nagging at the back of my head the last few days about this whole plan: This is Marlins Park 2.0.

For all that didn't pay attention to what happened, back in 2004 (after the team won it's second World Series) the then Florida Marlins (having played in the admittedly fugly multipurpose Sun Life Stadium since the teams inception) demanded to have a new baseball specific stadium built for them in the City of Miami. Here is a timeline of what happened next. Some of this will sound familiar:

-Miami-Dade County unveiled a $420 million plan for a new baseball park in Little Havana
-The project would focus on not only building the stadium, but also revitalization of the Little Havana neighborhood by also building a mixed use entertainment/housing/office complex on the surrounding grounds
-The site selected was no where near a Metrorail station (Miami's version of MARTA)

After the initial plan was released, there were several years of negotiations while the costs of the stadium complex ballooned to $525 million by 2008. The proposed funding deal would be that Miami-Dade county would be on the hook for 2/3 of the building costs, but the Marlins would keep 100% of the revenue generated by the stadium and mixed-use development.

The negotiations got nasty, and when it appeared that the deal wasn't going to happen, the Marlins owners threatened to bolt to which ever city would happily build them a new stadium (Las Vegas and Portland were interested) and insisted that the city/county shoulder more of the costs. The government officials broke, and agreed to the Marlins ownership's demands. In 2009, the plan was finalized but it now would cost $634 million to build the stadium and the city/county would be on the hook for 80% of the cost. Of course, when it comes to financing bonds, the number written on a piece of paper is just that. When all the loans and bonds were tallied, the final cost of the stadium would be spread over 40 years and would end up being $2.2 billion dollars.

And with that, Marlins Park broke ground (after a trifle SEC investigation) and it was all puppy dogs and rainbows after that, right? No.

In the years since, the Marlins did indeed get their new ballpark. After the financing deal was done though, the Marlins owners cut their team payroll from $100 million to just $35 million. The Marlins, having fielded two World Championship teams in their short lifespan now have without a doubt the crappiest team in all of baseball. I'm not just talking about the majors either, I'm pretty sure there are some little league teams that could beat them.

And that mixed use? Yeah, that never happened. Instead, four gigantic multilevel parking decks surround the stadium with a gigantic empty lot in front of the stadium where that fancy mixed-use office residential development was supposed to go.

There are few great stories to read through on the links below, but it's clear the Braves are playing from the exact same playbook the Marlins did with the same empty promises. Worse yet, Turner Field is one of the most beautiful stadiums in all of sport and an icon. Marlins Park can't even compare and it's 10 times more expensive.

Be warned Cobb County, this is your future. Your bed is made, it will be lumpy.

Will an Empty Marlins Park Create Backlash Against Sports Stadium Subsidies? - Forbes

Marlins Mixed Use Stadium Faltering - Tags: STADIUMS -- Florida PUBLIC-private sector cooperation

[Cameron H]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

This is Marlins Park 2.0.

Miami-Dade County unveiled a $420 million plan for a new baseball park in Little Havana

There's something about your analogy that seems like a bad fit for the Cumberland scenario, but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it.

Turner Field is one of the most beautiful stadiums in all of sport and an icon.

Know how I know you don't watch much baseball?

[Lady's Man]

comparing one of the worst franchises in all of sports to the braves is just plain silly. pro sports don't belong in the state of florida... at least not yet. The braves are not only one of the most successful franchise in baseball (in terms of winning and fan support), but they are also one of the best run teams in baseball (financially). The braves will unequivocally make more money by moving to cobb county.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by Jimmeh

Does anyone know the percentage of those who show up to Turner Field for first pitch? I don't know when the last time I showed up on time for a Braves game, if ever. I also generally go to the game with three or more people in a car. There's enough in Cumberland and Vining's to chill before and after the game. Meaning not everyone has to leave at the same time.

Something else I didn't consider, there is an HOV exit that let's you off closer to Cobb Pkwy at Cumberland. Or get off at Cumberland and turn on Akers Mill or take it to Circle 75 or ride Galleria pkwy. You can get off at Windy Hill and be closer to the stadium, if they kept the roads they have now, there are numerous ways to get to the game, I feel like Turner didn't have those options, but then again I didn't really know the area. You can get off on Mt. Paran and even Northside pkwy.

Heck, I could ride from Northside drive/Howell Mill without touching the interstate and make it to Cobb Pkwy in 30 min during 6:30. Windy Hill can get you to Circle 75 and Windy Ridge, Herodian crosses cobb pkwy and circle 75, Cumberland Pkwy and Powers Ferry can get you there, and of course Cobb Pkwy can. The mile away transfer center still has bus stops all the way there.

All they need is a shuttle. Express drops you off in various areas here. I used Express to get and leave work when I used to carpool in Henry County. They could up the busses to alleviate some of it and that's not going to cost them what a rail system will. I'm more worried about Akers Mill NE. This is the main road traveled from Buckhead and Sandy Springs drivers taking back roads. Windy Hill for East and West Cobb is the only way to get to this area outside of Spring Rd for Austell rd. People could take the south Cobb drive exit and take Windy Hill to Cumberland.

The big difference that you don't seem to understand is that rail has a higher capacity and moves people at a faster rate.Its a big different than having several buses run up and down the road.

How does Cumberland have more to do than going downtown to ride a Ferris Wheel,hang out on Centennial Park,go to the aquarium ,etc?

People do want to go from one suburb to another to go do the same things they can do in there own.
How many Chili's can you visit that are much different from all the other chain type resturants in the suburbs?What else is there to do beside eat and shop?Most people are not going to a game in the suburbs to "hang out".

Not to mention that area is not pedestrian friendly.You have to walk through some wide streets with lots of cars to access any of those restaurants and shops.

Im not saying where Turner Field is a great area to do anything but people do hang out in the city before taking MARTA to the game.

[Saintmarks]

What is the capacity of a MARTA train? A quick google search says 300. How often do they run? Could 20,000 people really be moved by MARTA expediently (if the 40% someone mentioned is even close to correct). Do the math, it ain't happening.

I took MARTA a few times from Sandy Springs to see a Braves game. It wasn't so bad on a lower attendance week night but on a big weekend game when the stadium was full was less than a pleasant experience. Getting on the shuttles took so long that we started driving after that. 6% of 50k is still a large number to put on buses and then trains that don't hold THAT many people.

Let's do the math at this point. 6% of a capacity crowd is 3000 people. Most coming from northern burbs, but some will obviously be going east/west/south, so let's say 2000 people heading north. Trains run, what, every ten minutes? 300 X 6 = 1800. An hour after the game and you still don't have everyone on board as they aren't empty when they roll into the station plus the incessant amount of time it took to get from the stadium onto the shuttle and then to 5 points.

Says to me 6% might be an inflated number.