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Old 11-12-2013, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Braves Country
194 posts, read 315,516 times
Reputation: 155

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
Ever notice that there aren't any real red cities? Or that Georgia is on track to be blue in the next decade? Once we take over it and Texas it'll be smooth sailing!

That's just it. Its the free market that keeps some cities more desirable than others. "Real Blue" cities are kept afloat by the "Real Red" dollars of the suburbs.
When Government moves in and starts the free give-aways to one group at the expense of another, that's when decline starts. i.e. people, businesses and jobs looking for a cheaper, less intrusive place to live/work.
The proof is in the pudding Joey, that's why Texas and Georgia will remain "Red" and purple states like Florida and Virginia will soon swing to the free market side. (Ohio on the verge of being Red itself). No state government or city government has taxed their state or city to prosperity. Ever. When taxes and the cost of doing business goes down, the quality of life for all goes up. Basic economics, man. But you already knew that. lol
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:03 AM
 
1,697 posts, read 2,236,557 times
Reputation: 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by WmMeeker View Post
It has more to do with the weather than factory cities. Birmingham Alabama also has grown in population despite the fact it is a very heavy industrial city.
This in incorrect. Birmingham has lost population every decade since the sixties and even between 2010-2012.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:05 AM
 
329 posts, read 428,453 times
Reputation: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by boo radley View Post
That's just it. Its the free market that keeps some cities more desirable than others. "Real Blue" cities are kept afloat by the "Real Red" dollars of the suburbs.
When Government moves in and starts the free give-aways to one group at the expense of another, that's when decline starts. i.e. people, businesses and jobs looking for a cheaper, less intrusive place to live/work.
The proof is in the pudding Joey, that's why Texas and Georgia will remain "Red" and purple states like Florida and Virginia will soon swing to the free market side. (Ohio on the verge of being Red itself). No state government or city government has taxed their state or city to prosperity. Ever. When taxes and the cost of doing business goes down, the quality of life for all goes up. Basic economics, man. But you already knew that. lol
That is true of only some cites such as Atlanta. Atlanta has a daytime population many times as large as the resident population and there is no doubt that all the money we in the suburbs spend in Atlanta is good for the city. But other cities such as Chicago are not nearly as dependent on "red suburbs". If anything it is the other way around.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:06 AM
 
329 posts, read 428,453 times
Reputation: 160
The next red states to go blue:

1. Arizona
2. Nevada
3. North Carolina
4. Florida
5. Georgia
6. Arkansas
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:12 AM
 
7,132 posts, read 9,074,475 times
Reputation: 6333
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
Ever notice that there aren't any real red cities? Or that Georgia is on track to be blue in the next decade? Once we take over it and Texas it'll be smooth sailing!
No, it probably won't. If Georgia and Texas are doing excellent now being red states, clearly, the fiscal conservatives are doing something right. I'm very socially liberal, but when it comes to fiscal politics, I'm in the middle.

Do we really want to be the next California? Maybe it's best we stay purple to red.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:54 AM
 
238 posts, read 553,264 times
Reputation: 176
Red v Blue…

I think a lot of it is tied to history, which in turn is tied to economics. Southern states are better to grow crops such as cotton, and the labor that serviced that industry was oftentimes slave labor. Thus, the people who would own such ventures were more likely to be slaveowners, the direct ancestors of the red population today (yes that is an incendiary statement. Please don’t try to disprove it anecdotally, as in “I’m a conservative and some of my best friends are black”).

As these red-thinkers grew in number and economic (and therefore political) status, they branched out into non-farm industries. Their labor, whether slave or not, was still heavily made up of the black population. Of course, the blacks who migrated north in search of a better life found it in manufacturing, but as that wanes, many of them and their descendants are making their way back to the south. Just read the (yes, anecdotal) threads on this very forum.

So we have a new South that is the direct result of the Old South. Conservatives in the suburbs (proximate to farms and rural lifestyles) dominated by red-thinkers, and the economic engines/cores of these red states (Atlanta, Nashville, etc, comprised heavily of educated, high-earning migrants and immigrants) providing the very means of sustenance for the rest of the state (does anyone have any illusions that Georgia would be worth a damn without Atlanta metro?), and therefore, ironically, blue supporting the existence of red.

Future: The influence the blue cities will have on their red states will continue, pushing them, as some above have stated, into ever-more purple territory. Red-thinkers will push further out into the hinterland as the blues look for room to expand. At some point there could be a cultural upheaval (I hesitate to use the word revolution but darn, everything else is made in China anyway) that may have the opposite effect.

None of the above is permanent, but just a phase in the ever-changing world we now live in, where communication (read internet, but even before that, the telephone) has driven accelerated change.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Braves Country
194 posts, read 315,516 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by WmMeeker View Post
The next red states to go blue:

1. Arizona
2. Nevada
3. North Carolina
4. Florida
5. Georgia
6. Arkansas

Nevada, maybe.
Florida, depends on the candidate each time.
The rest, no way!
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:47 AM
 
5,110 posts, read 7,107,908 times
Reputation: 3116
Quote:
That's just it. Its the free market that keeps some cities more desirable than others. "Real Blue" cities are kept afloat by the "Real Red" dollars of the suburbs.
Wrong, the burbs wouldn't exist if the city and its jobs, infrastructure and amenities didn't exist to begin with. With suburbs you have people who want what the city offers, but don't want to pay for the services they use.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Braves Country
194 posts, read 315,516 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by whynot1986 View Post
Red v Blue…

I think a lot of it is tied to history, which in turn is tied to economics. Southern states are better to grow crops such as cotton, and the labor that serviced that industry was oftentimes slave labor. Thus, the people who would own such ventures were more likely to be slaveowners, the direct ancestors of the red population today (yes that is an incendiary statement. Please don’t try to disprove it anecdotally, as in “I’m a conservative and some of my best friends are black”).

As these red-thinkers grew in number and economic (and therefore political) status, they branched out into non-farm industries. Their labor, whether slave or not, was still heavily made up of the black population. Of course, the blacks who migrated north in search of a better life found it in manufacturing, but as that wanes, many of them and their descendants are making their way back to the south. Just read the (yes, anecdotal) threads on this very forum.

So we have a new South that is the direct result of the Old South. Conservatives in the suburbs (proximate to farms and rural lifestyles) dominated by red-thinkers, and the economic engines/cores of these red states (Atlanta, Nashville, etc, comprised heavily of educated, high-earning migrants and immigrants) providing the very means of sustenance for the rest of the state (does anyone have any illusions that Georgia would be worth a damn without Atlanta metro?), and therefore, ironically, blue supporting the existence of red.

Future: The influence the blue cities will have on their red states will continue, pushing them, as some above have stated, into ever-more purple territory. Red-thinkers will push further out into the hinterland as the blues look for room to expand. At some point there could be a cultural upheaval (I hesitate to use the word revolution but darn, everything else is made in China anyway) that may have the opposite effect.

None of the above is permanent, but just a phase in the ever-changing world we now live in, where communication (read internet, but even before that, the telephone) has driven accelerated change.

Due to the "Blue state/Nanny state" way of thinking. When people start to make decisions on historic fact rather than emotional feel-good politics, everyone will be better off. China makes everything because it is cheaper to use their forced labor and ship it 4000 miles than it is for businesses to pay all the taxes and fees to run shop over here.

Back to the OP point. This is what happened to the rust belt. More and more taxes and fees on production, (to spread around to keep the unwashed voting right...er..a..left), drove them first out of state, then out of country. Detroit in the 80s and 90s is a prime example. Chicago's population continues to drop, as does Buffalo's, Pittsburg's, Akron's, Milwaukee's, Toledo's, Flint's, etc... All once proud bastions of industry now just rusty, crime ridden, shadows of their former glory.

Why? Big Blue Gubment likes to keep their jobs. The real world sux! But you knew that.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Braves Country
194 posts, read 315,516 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Wrong, the burbs wouldn't exist if the city and its jobs, infrastructure and amenities didn't exist to begin with. With suburbs you have people who want what the city offers, but don't want to pay for the services they use.




I am quite sure that taxes are being paid by people in the burbs. Just not as much as inner city taxes. And services are much better in the burbs compared to the inner city. That's the whole reasoning.
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