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Old 11-27-2013, 07:29 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,445 posts, read 3,845,492 times
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Because that $200 million isn't coming from city coffers, but from the existing hotel-motel tax that currently goes to the GWCC/Dome (the COA was only acting as a negotiator on behalf of the GWCCA/State of Georgia). Had the City of Atlanta really pushed to keep the Braves at the Ted, that money would've had to come from either a new revenue source (tax) or from the city's general fund, and considering money doesn't grow on trees, that wasn't happening (and which is a concept Cobb County failed to understand).

Reed didn't mess it up.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:30 PM
 
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If a new Braves stadium could have been done with less than 20% public funding and using an existing tax revenue then I think you would have got a new Braves stadium. Remember, the Dome and new falcon stadium is a different animal where the state either owns or has interest in it as well.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alco89 View Post
Quote:
Corndog, you KNOW it's for more than just Falcons games, so stop exaggerating. This goes for you and all the other people who dislike the stadium deal...

Of course there are more events, but were those motor cross, monster truck rallies and high school football games really not going to keep coming unless a new stadium was built?

If Reed really did know about this all along, then yes. However, with ideas for redeveloping the area being bounced around earlier this year, I really don't think he knew about the possibility of them leaving until it was too late. Also, why would it just be Reed's fault? Why not all the other city leaders over the past 40 years for never doing anything with the area, ESPECIALLY during the Olympics?? Sure, they get blame too, but at this point, the ball was in his court to do something.

There are plenty of examples of 'ballparks' that DON'T redevelop the area. Let's not act like it's a given...
I can think of more that did than those that didn't. Here are some in the NL that did: Pittsburgh, St Louis, Cincy, Washington, Arizona, San Diego, Colorado, Phoenix. That is a pretty healthy list.


Wait, so you're upset about "giving $200+ million to keep the Falcons in town", but would want the city to do the same to keep the Braves? Did you know the improvements that the Braves requested would have been just as much money? Yea, ok.

I'm not upset at either. I'm just wondering why no one is asking this question because the Braves impact is >>>>>> than the Falcons impact and the mayor championed the Falcons at the price of losing the Braves.
.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:35 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,695,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Because that $200 million isn't coming from city coffers, but from the existing hotel-motel tax that currently goes to the GWCC/Dome (the COA was only acting as a negotiator on behalf of the GWCCA/State of Georgia). Had the City of Atlanta really pushed to keep the Braves at the Ted, that money would've had to come from either a new revenue source (tax) or from the city's general fund, and considering money doesn't grow on trees, that wasn't happening (and which is a concept Cobb County failed to understand).

Reed didn't mess it up.
Or that hotel tax money could've been redirected to a new Braves stadium on that site instead of the Falcons. Was this even discussed? Why didn't the mayor push for this? I certainly heard him running around chatting up the Falcons Stadium.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 967,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
\Had the City of Atlanta really pushed to keep the Braves at the Ted, that money would've had to come from either a new revenue source (tax) or from the city's general fund, and considering money doesn't grow on trees, that wasn't happening (and which is a concept Cobb County failed to understand).
Spending and investment (and the sales and property taxes that follow them) will be moving from the city to Cobb County. Money isn't required to sprout from trees in order for this to make sense from Cobb's perspective.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Perhaps, but those events were not going to stop coming to Atlanta without a new stadium. The Georgia Dome could've easily kept supporting those B-level attractions indefinitely.

Doubling down on MLS?

LOL.

So you get 15,000 a game for what, 15-20 games a year? That is peanuts compared to what the Braves provide.
Braves barely average 25k a game LOL. It takes 3 average Braves games to equal 1 Falcon's game LOL. So in the end, it equals out with all the events that go to the Dome, plus that stadium actually has transit access and brings people to Downtown.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:38 PM
 
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So strange how you're always so anti-tax, but you happily welcome the Braves who will increase your taxes for several years. Are you really conservative???
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:41 PM
 
1,021 posts, read 1,922,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Care to expand on that thought?

Apparently it is okay for KReed to play Santa Clause to the Falcons and a new stadium that won't have much of an impact outside of 10-13 days a year. Why would he not instead focus on a team that CAN have an impact on redevelopment instead.

Seems to me he pushed his chips on the Falcons when he should've bet on the Braves.
I might be inclined to say the reverse. I definitely see your point; when done correctly (like Camden Yards in Baltimore) a baseball stadium can dramatically increase foot traffic in a downtown area. I can't say I have any hard numbers on the benefits to ancillary businesses though.

However, does anyone think that the Braves organization is betting a bit TOO HARD on the Atlanta suburbs? What is the rationale behind relocating the AAA affiliate to Gwinnett then Cobb ponying up to have the MLB franchise less than a decade later? Does anyone in Cobb see the experience in Gwinnett as cautionary? Here are the final 2013 minor league affiliate numbers for the US:

2013 Affiliated Attendance by Average | News

In looking at its relative company on the list, Gwinnett should be way higher than 55th to be regarded as a successful venture. Cobb County has over 100,000 less people than Gwinnett. Is the word "Atlanta" tacked on the MLB franchise going to produce that much of a greater suburban baseball experience than what could be had in any county? I would be really nervous about the $300 million tax dollars if I was a Cobb resident. The $400 million privately-funded mixed-use development that is supposed to justify the whole endeavor seems spurious at best.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:41 PM
 
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That would have been great, but would the state have approved this? And even if they did the Braves clearly could get more than $200M elsewhere so they would have turned it down. Interesting how much more grief the city got over the falcons deal (a much better deal for the public) than Cobb County got. Guess there game plan of just ramming it through in a matter of weeks paid off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Or that hotel tax money could've been redirected to a new Braves stadium on that site instead of the Falcons. Was this even discussed? Why didn't the mayor push for this? I certainly heard him running around chatting up the Falcons Stadium.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:43 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,695,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Braves barely average 25k a game LOL. It takes 3 average Braves games to equal 1 Falcon's game LOL. So in the end, it equals out with all the events that go to the Dome, plus that stadium actually has transit access and brings people to Downtown.
Braves had a total attendance of 2.55 million this year (31,000+ per game). Add the impact of a new stadium and I think you'll see at least an average of 35,000 or 2.83 million per year.

The Falcons are averaging just 70,000 per game or 560,000 for the regular season. Add in about 50,000 per preseason game and you are up to 660,000. Add in 3 major college football games and you are up to about 870,000. That is about it for regular tenants. Again, you get the other random events like Monster Truck rallies, WWE stuff, and high school football and band stuff, but those events would continue to persist in the Georgia Dome. It isn't like those events were going to stop coming without a new building. Even if they did, what are you looking at, mabe 20 events at an average of 20,000? So go ahead and add 400,000 and you are up to 1.27 million.

1.27 million people on 30-35 days
or
2.83 million people on 81 days

Which do you think could help spur development? I certainly would want to locate my business next to option #2. There is a reason that ballparks spur development and stadiums don't.
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