Private vs. Public in Atlanta - Addressing the Special Needs of Children (Gifted, Learning Disabilities)

[Humanista]

Granted I don't have kids and went to school in Connecticut, but I did this type of research when I was considering which high school to go to - my parents gave me the choice of attending my local public high school or private. Even then, and this was almost 25 years ago, my research pointed to the fact that private schools were great for average students as teachers had more time to spend with them to help them excel. Gifted students (or perhaps high achievers) with no learning disabilities were well served by public schools because of the various options available, assuming the student was self-directed and willing to embrace them. I was in G&T where I was able to take on self-directed projects and I was able to double up on math and science classes which I'm sure helped me get into MIT. I know the private schools I was considering were more rigid and I would not have had as much freedom in which classes I chose.

I chose a public school and got to participate in activities I never would have had if I took the private route. I did spend summers at Choate Rosemary Hall and I could definitely see the difference excellent facilities could make in the process, but I was confident that I didn't need a $25,000 per year (1990 dollars) school to do well. If you are considering a Choate vs public and $50,000 a year for high school is not a pain point, do it. They had fabulous facilities including NeXT computers and Spark stations (this was the only time I saw a NeXT computer in the wild), but if you would rather save that type of money for college, and your child is truly gifted, public school is typically a fine option.

[LovelySummer]

Wow. Just wow. I'm overwhelmed and amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this thread!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have a number of end of month deadlines to meet but will be back to discuss after the new year.

Thanks very much, everyone. Very much appreciated!

[demonta4]

Well I was gifted and went to a public school and my brother went to private school, when I told him what we I was learning he said he was way behind.

[LovelySummer]

Thanks again, Deacongirl. I like your recommendation about Paidiea and the information and insight that you have provided about the different levels of giftedness is also very, very helpful. I am DM'ing you. Are you recommending Paideia as a school for a kid that is at very high level of giftedness because they offer the multi-age classroom? We are attracted to this aspect of the school along with others. We really like the focus on individualized instruction and that seems to be an aspect that we have not seen at any other private (or public) school as yet.

Originally Posted by deacongirl

I don't have time to go into depth but my 13 yr. old is highly gifted, and I suspect my 6 yr. old is some level of gifted although more complicated. There are many factors and every kid is different, but I will share my experience and opinions (based on parental experience, reflection on my own experiences as a child, and lots of reading and talking with other parents of kids with unique educational needs). For the record, I also have a son with Down syndrome so I have experience advocating for and parenting kids at both ends of the bell curve.

I think first of all it depends what level of gifted you are talking about. If right around the usual cut-off for public school gifted programs, i.e. IQ of 130, then I think that child's needs can be more easily met at one of the selective private schools or in a public school classroom at a school with a large number of gifted-identified kids. (East Cobb schools would fit that description.) Elementary school in my opinion is when it can be the hardest to find a good fit if the child is more unusual, if a school is likely to see very few kids at that LOG. This is where I strongly believe a multi-age class (i.e. Montessori) or a school like Paidaia is great for these kids. It gets easier in middle school/high school to meet kids' needs with subject acceleration in a way that can be challenging in younger grades. I also love the self-contained gifted model for elementary at Paradise Valley School District in AZ.

The reason I said that sometimes public schools work better for kids at higher LOGs is because many privates will tell parents that they have plenty of same-age true intellectual peers for their child, that the regular program without any kind of acceleration will work fine, etc., when in fact the school has likely seen very few children at that LOG. They can be excellent for kids who are optimally gifted (IMO IQ around 125-130), who are bright and hard-working, but not so asynchronous and who have not developed a bad case of perfectionism. Some public schools are more willing to be flexible and not as opposed to forms of acceleration.

Of course it can be difficult to get a real sense of where a child falls on the bell curve (disclaimer: for whatever that is worth--obviously there are many characterisitics that lead to success that are difficult to measure) when the child is younger. That is why I think a school like Paidaia is great in the meantime, if the child really can work at their own level. I believe that waiting until middle school to get the best educational fit can be damaging: http://www.portage.k12.in.us/cms/lib...oesntlearn.pdf

My dd now 13 had a wonderful experience through 5th grade at Montessori (not in ATL) and I think that experience is what has allowed her to know herself so well and gave her a great basis for future success (including a grade skip from 5th into 7th). It is not great for all gifted kids--depends on the willingness of the teacher and school to recognize outliers.

If we believe that grit is a good determiner of future success, then gifted kids also need opportunities to learn new things in school, and to work hard and to fail, in order to strengthen their grit.

Finally--if a child is 2e, i.e. gifted plus LD, homeschooling may be the very best option, and I have friends who are doing an amazing job at it. My impression, which may be incorrect, is that privates would not be eager to serve a 2e kid (unless it was a school like Schenk for example).

Good luck.

[LovelySummer]

Thank you. I will look into ordering electronic copies. Maybe I can do a quick review online since decisions need to be made asap.
Thanks very much!

Originally Posted by aries4118

LovelySummer:

There is some great research out there related to some of your questions and inquiries.

Here is a very helpful book--recently researched and published:

The Public School Advantage: Why Public Schools Outperform Private Schools, Lubienski, Lubienski

The Public School Advantage: Why Public Schools Outperform Private Schools: Christopher A. Lubienski, Sarah Theule Lubienski: 9780226088914: Amazon.com: Books

[LovelySummer]

Hello Aries,

Really? Will you please elaborate on this a bit more? Please DM me if necessary to really get into the details.

Originally Posted by aries4118

I do want to comment on this one part, though...

Believe or not, you will actually find many schools that serve their gifted/high-achieving students well, but may need more improvement in the areas/curricula that serve students within the average range.

And--there are several examples of this in the metro area.

[LovelySummer]

LMM,

Thank you. We are already seeing this - the approach taken is grouping, at best, but does not serve a kid that is outside of even the most advanced group. And then the approach of having all children at the same level is also what we are seeing alot of when we do our online review. There is no sure and definite way to handle a kid who is outside of the curriculum for the class. It is a challenge, for sure. Would you mind elaborating on private schools that have a curriculum and instructional model that lends itself to highly creative children? This would be awesome to know about as we continue our research.

It sounds like you are saying that public school could be a fit because of acceleration, which is not done as often with private schools. Is that right? So, it seems that the approach in public school allows the child to do work in higher grade levels while leaving the child in the class with his age/grade level peers. That is good to know as I was under the impression that the only approach in public school was a pull-out for a few hours a week. Have you found that a teacher in one grade is properly trained to teach the techniques for math and reading in a higher-level grade? For example, will the teacher be familiar with the higher-level grade curriculum and approaches for teaching (esp with the new math that is in place, for example) so that the approaches are consistent with what the child will be required to do when he/she gets to that grade level? Do you have any sense of when the instruction for the child that is doing different work happens during the day?

I would love to learn more about why you think the average child is not well-served in some public schools in Atlanta. This is a bit disturbing since the average child, by virtue of the meaning of "average" is the most numerous....and we are missing an opportunity with them, apparently.

Thanks

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

There are several private schools in Atlanta designed to serve children with learning differences/disabilities. There are virtually no private schools in Atlanta that have narrowed their target population to only gifted children. Most private schools have a fairly rigid approach to their curriculum and instructional models, especially in elementary school. They may not differentiate much even, expecting all students to be at the same place at the same time. Or their differentiation takes place in the form of ability grouping, which helps some, but generally not the kids on either extreme. There are some private schools that have a curriculum and instructional model that lends it self to highly creative children.

I have had multiple children in public and private schools. The one with learning disabilities is also gifted and was far better served at a private school for students who learn differently than she ever could have been in public school. She needed a strong structure during her day to help her be successful.

All of my children have been identified as gifted. They are all very bright, but in some cases more high achiever than truly gifted. This is very common in GA and other states. True giftedness is rare, high achieving is much more common.

If you have an elementary age child who you want accelerated, private schools generally don't do this, while more and more public school systems have policies allowing parents to request testing for acceleration. Fulton County school system has continuous curriculum which allows students to stay in their "right" grade but go ahead in math and reading.

I totally agree with Aries on the comments about average children. In the "best" public schools in Atlanta and DeKalb, I would almost guarantee that you the average child isn't well served Same actually at schools like Walton and Northview... I can elaborate if you would like.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by LovelySummer

Hello Aries,

Really? Will you please elaborate on this a bit more? Please DM me if necessary to really get into the details.

lastminutemom already talked about some of the details concerning this above.

In a nutshell...

1. Many of the top scoring schools (like Walton, Northview) are hyper-competitive/intense, and they are not necessarily the best environment for more "general" students. This a suburban phenomenon.


2. On the other hand, some urban-like schools especially cater to the high-achieving upper-middle class students/families so that they will stay in the public school system. The "general" classes leave much to be desired (sometimes fairly wild+crunk), but the honors/gifted/AP tracks will be top-notch. Most of the upper-middle class families will ensure that their child(ren) are in the honors+ tracks...even if their child(ren) is/are only high-average. The problem is when an upper-middle class family has a child that cannot cut it in the upper tracks no matter what. This is when, believe or not, you often see urban upper-middle class families using the private school system.


3. Numbers 1 and 2 become more of an issue in middle and high school...not as much in elementary schools.