Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I heard today that Target is closing the Super Target on Steve Reynolds.
I know the area has been having problems, but when Target can't make a go of it, you know you've got huge problems. I see this as an enormous blow to the area.
This is pretty amazing when you consider that the Super Target there is only 11 or 12 years old. They closed the regular Target on Pleasant Hill to build that brand new Super Target, and now they are pulling out completely. That means the area went from being able to support a Super Target to not being able to support a Target at all in just over a decade.
When will Gwinnett Place get its act together? Is it time to wholesale bulldoze some apartment complexes? What is causing the mass decline of the area?
Every time I think it has bottomed out and the next step is revitalization, it falls down further. How do we stop the bleeding? What's next to go?
When will Gwinnett Place get its act together? Is it time to wholesale bulldoze some apartment complexes?
Bulldozing apartment complexes is not a bad idea, the only problems with that approach are that buying declining apartment complexes in unincorporated Gwinnett County may not necessarily possible in this current political environment in the aftermath of the backlash against the previous Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners' involvement in multiple unethical and even outright illegal shady land deals.
Also, at this point, Gwinnett County likely does not want to give up the property tax revenue from the apartments in the area of Gwinnett Place Mall.
Also, the very-large Gwinnett County Public Schools system would not be happy with the potential decline in enrollment figures that could likely be brought about by the elimination of so many apartment complexes as GCPS' current existence is built largely upon catering directly to the unique educational needs of a seemingly endlessly fast-growing ultra-transient population in Georgia's second-largest county and Metro Atlanta's largest suburban county.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL
What is causing the mass decline of the area?
There is a combination of multiple factors causing the decline of the Gwinnett Place area, including:
> The opening of 4 other major shopping centers in Gwinnett County in the last 15 years (at the Mall of Georgia, Sugarloaf Mills, The Forum on Peachtree Parkway, and the Shoppes at Webb Gin) as well as the advent of other major shopping areas around the Mall of Georgia in Buford and along the GA 124 corridor in Snellville...
...Major shopping center openings that meant that Gwinnett Place Mall was no longer 'the only game in town' when it came to regional mall shopping in Northeast Metro Atlanta, as Gwinnett Place was basically the only major regional shopping area in Gwinnett County from 1984 to 1999;
> The continued advent of 'one-stop-shopping' at mega-department stores such as Wal-Mart Supercenters as well as the advent and continued growth of online shopping, two events that have led to substantive shopping declines at all but the most-popular traditional brick-and-mortal stores;
> A once-unthinkable decline in the popularity of enclosed regional shopping malls;
> Massive demographic changes of the Gwinnett Place Mall area from an overwhelmingly white and middle-class area to a overwhelmingly minority, working-class and lower-income area as reflected by Gwinnett County's change from having a population that was 96% white in 1980 (and a poverty rate that was as low as less than 4% in 1990) to having a population that is only 42% white and a poverty rate of nearly 14% in 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL
What's next to go?
At this point, what's next to go is probably what's left of Gwinnett Place Mall itself, which looks to be an increasingly likely not-so-distant future contestant on the DeadMalls.com website. DeadMalls.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL
Every time I think it has bottomed out and the next step is revitalization, it falls down further. How do we stop the bleeding?
Gwinnett County has some long-term plans to run a high-capacity passenger rail transit line (a proposed LRT line) through the Gwinnett Place area between the Doraville MARTA Station and the Gwinnett Center area.
Gwinnett County also has some long-term ambitions to redevelop the Gwinnett Place Mall area into a high-density mixed transit-oriented high-rise commercial district with an international flair.
Really sad. When I came to Atlanta in 1982 to attend college, my sister lived here and built a house in Norcross off Ingram Rd, back when that area was the way out burns and new subdivisions were springing up.
In 1983-84, I watched Gwinnett Place Mall go up, and over the next few years a two lane road with a 76 truck stop became the center of the fastest growing county in the US. When I graduated, my first apartment was down the street at the now defunct Post Court Apartments. I later lived on Breckinridge.
The death of this area has come within 20 years, and I didn't live here in the '90s, but my guess is that the Mall of Georgia opening and the growth of north Gwinnett, along with the influx of immigrants (both legal and illegal) have helped to hasten the demise of Gwinnett Place.
It's a shame. I now know what my parents experienced watching Brooklyn sink to the depths of crime and filth it experienced in the 1970s and 1980s.
Really sad. When I came to Atlanta in 1982 to attend college, my sister lived here and built a house in Norcross off Ingram Rd, back when that area was the way out burns and new subdivisions were springing up.
In 1983-84, I watched Gwinnett Place Mall go up, and over the next few years a two lane road with a 76 truck stop became the center of the fastest growing county in the US. When I graduated, my first apartment was down the street at the now defunct Post Court Apartments. I later lived on Breckinridge.
The death of this area has come within 20 years, and I didn't live here in the '90s, but my guess is that the Mall of Georgia opening and the growth of north Gwinnett, along with the influx of immigrants (both legal and illegal) have helped to hasten the demise of Gwinnett Place.
It's a shame. I now know what my parents experienced watching Brooklyn sink to the depths of crime and filth it experienced in the 1970s and 1980s.
So, I guess the fact that there are brand new huge shopping centers that are all much nicer within a few miles of it has nothing to do with it?
I only know because I know someone who knows someone who works there who told me all the employees have been told it's shutting down (in May, I think).
Apparently, this particular Target has a huge problem with coupon fraud and a very high level of food stamp usage. I guess those things cut into profitability. It seems like this Target is always fairly crowded when I go, but apparently their customer base isn't profitable. I bet it has a lot of problems with theft, too.
I'm not sure if this is true, but an employee at the Pleasant Hill Wal-Mart once told me that location has the most instances of any Wal-Mart in the country of customers taking products out of sealed boxes in the store.
And, I guess I'm part of the problem. It's probably more or less equidistant for me to go to the Steve Reynolds or Johns Creek Target, and I almost always choose the Johns Creek location even though it's not a Super store. Just like I pretty much avoid the Pleasant Hill Wal-Mart at all costs and go to the one in Suwanee on Lawrenceville-Suwanee Road if I really have to go, but usually I just go when I happen to be in an area where one is convenient like Perimeter. The past few times I went to that Pleasant Hill Wal-Mart, the shelves were so horribly stocked and the checkout lines were so long, I swore I'd rather drive double the distance to avoid that hole. I didn't do it on purpose, but I've kind of cut Wal-Mart out of my life and only go there quite infrequently.
Regarding Gwinnett Place, you know I have very strong opinions on it. I am a strong critic of inviting an international presence to try to save a location. Not because I don't enjoy international flair, but because I've never seen it actually work. Megamart was supposed to help revitalize Gwinnett Place...nope. Global Mall on Jimmy Carter? Great Indian food, but more or less ghetto mall. Buford Highway in Chamblee, great food, but pretty dumpy area. I think international flavors are great at attracting the occasional foodie, but I have reservations that they can help revitalize an area. I also associate the larger international presence with the decline of Gwinnett Place, though who's to say that without it the area wouldn't have sunk even deeper by now? I think this can save an area from desperation to mild viability, but can't turn it upscale. I would be extremely skeptical of a mixed use development with an international flair.
I would much rather see Gwinnett Place "Perimeterized" with restaurants like Cheesecake Factory and great stores that want locations in Gwinnett but aren't at Mall of Georgia, like maybe Von Maur. I know there aren't many anchor department stores left that aren't represented nearby, and I think the mall could definitely lose an anchor location. Very few malls nowadays are able to support 5 without one of them turning into something like a Megamart or Big Lots or something, and I think that cheapens the whole mall. Megamart should be knocked down and turned into a grand entrance and Belk should be turned into one of those new high end movie theaters with reclining leather seats. The plaza shops around the mall should try to attract successful local brands and establish some sort of night life with places like Intermezzo, Loca Luna (as much as I hate that place), Apres Diem, etc. just like Park Place by Perimeter.
Demographics in the immediate area won't support this now, but if it was built, maybe the demographics would shift. It could actually be a good draw for wealthy young couples and families who still like to go out from Johns Creek, who right now don't have many good alternatives outside downtown Roswell. This would be about as close for most of them.
It's pie in the sky, but honestly.....I'd rather see it crumble and vacate than turn into some international flea market.
Regarding Gwinnett Place, you know I have very strong opinions on it. I am a strong critic of inviting an international presence to try to save a location. Not because I don't enjoy international flair, but because I've never seen it actually work. Megamart was supposed to help revitalize Gwinnett Place...nope. Global Mall on Jimmy Carter? Great Indian food, but more or less ghetto mall. Buford Highway in Chamblee, great food, but pretty dumpy area. I think international flavors are great at attracting the occasional foodie, but I have reservations that they can help revitalize an area. I also associate the larger international presence with the decline of Gwinnett Place, though who's to say that without it the area wouldn't have sunk even deeper by now? I think this can save an area from desperation to mild viability, but can't turn it upscale. I would be extremely skeptical of a mixed use development with an international flair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL
I would much rather see Gwinnett Place "Perimeterized" with restaurants like Cheesecake Factory and great stores that want locations in Gwinnett but aren't at Mall of Georgia, like maybe Von Maur. I know there aren't many anchor department stores left that aren't represented nearby, and I think the mall could definitely lose an anchor location. Very few malls nowadays are able to support 5 without one of them turning into something like a Megamart or Big Lots or something, and I think that cheapens the whole mall. Megamart should be knocked down and turned into a grand entrance and Belk should be turned into one of those new high end movie theaters with reclining leather seats. The plaza shops around the mall should try to attract successful local brands and establish some sort of night life with places like Intermezzo, Loca Luna (as much as I hate that place), Apres Diem, etc. just like Park Place by Perimeter.
Demographics in the immediate area won't support this now, but if it was built, maybe the demographics would shift. It could actually be a good draw for wealthy young couples and families who still like to go out from Johns Creek, who right now don't have many good alternatives outside downtown Roswell. This would be about as close for most of them.
It's pie in the sky, but honestly.....I'd rather see it crumble and vacate than turn into some international flea market.
"Perimeterizing" the Gwinnett Place Mall area with upscale high-density and high-rise development is basically what Gwinnett business and real estate interests have in mind for that area.
Though, one must keep-in-mind that one of the major reasons why the Perimeter Center area has been so successful is because of a direct heavy rail transit connection with the world-leading Atlanta Airport.
The lack of a direct heavy rail transit connection to the world-leading Atlanta Airport by way of Midtown and Downtown Atlanta is one reason why the Cumberland/Galleria area had been at a growing economic disadvantage to the Perimeter/Dunwoody and Buckhead commercial districts before Cobb County landed the new Braves' stadium.
It's not enough to just simply change the mix of stores in a mall that seems to be on its deathbed...
...The rapidly-declining Gwinnett Place Mall and the surrounding area must be completely overhauled and redeveloped to appeal directly to young professionals and the larger business world as a whole with high-density mixed-use development and dependable high-frequency mass transit connections to Perimeter, Cumberland/Galleria, Buckhead, Midtown, Downtown, and (most-importantly) the world-leading Atlanta Airport.
At this particular point-in-time, it appears that one of the only factors that could save and turn around the rapidly-declining Gwinnett Place area is the implementation of a direct high-capacity passenger rail transit (preferably heavy rail transit) connection with the world-leading Atlanta Airport by way of Midtown and Downtown Atlanta.
Implementing a direct heavy rail transit connection to the world-leading Atlanta Airport will enable the Gwinnett Place Mall area to attract the substantial amount of investment that will be needed to get the area off of its deathbed and make it competitive with other commercial districts like the Mall of Georgia, Perimeter Center/Dunwoody, Buckhead and Cumberland/Galleria.
But we have to get started on something that will help before a rail line is completed. Which would probably be 10 years away if they started today. Which they aren't.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
