Is Atlanta's sprawl to blame for this icy mess? (Roswell: apartment, neighborhood)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by BlackPeach2

But it was predicted there would be issues. I think people were like "I can handle this" and instead "GOT HANDLED" The Snow was expected but the faith in everyone automobile was off. People actually though their cars & trucks would get them through. Next time stay home, keep your kids home, the streets were safe monDAY and monday NIGHT. As a collective we are just stupid. everyone is to blame.

Exactly. And you just watch, we'll go through this very same problem again in the spring when people drive right through the path of an oncoming tornado.

[0nyxStation]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Exactly. And you just watch, we'll go through this very same problem again in the spring when people drive right through the path of an oncoming tornado.

Sorry but I had to laugh at that man lol...good one.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by ipaper

From all the weather radars I saw early that morning,it was awfully close to the Atlanta southern metro areas and you should always allow margins of error in either direction when its that close. A few miles off in either directions can make a big difference as storms can often shift on a dime and predicting these things is not always 100% accurate. Nothing can be done about it now, but if nothing is learn from this than shame on them.

How does this contradict what I posted? People went to work and school based on information from the day prior. Hardly anyone stops to watch radar when their trying to get their kids to school and to work on time. LOL

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Which ones? Only possibly the big Texas cities and Phoenix can compare to Atlanta's sprawl. Sure, New York metro is bigger, but it's also way more dense and served by multiple forms of transit and Amtrak. And no other metro even comes close to crossing as many jurisdictions as we do. Heck, Houston metro has more people than us, and it's only nine counties, with almost all of the population (4.2 million) in ONE county! We're known as the poster child for suburban sprawl for a reason.

No, just no. Every single major metropolitan area in this country is surrounded by endless miles of sprawl. NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Fran, Los Angles, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, DC, etc all have the majority of their metro populations in their sprawling suburbs no matter how dense their central cities are. The idea that this unique to Atlanta or the Texas cities is quite bizarre to me.

[jero23]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Which ones? Only possibly the big Texas cities and Phoenix can compare to Atlanta's sprawl. Sure, New York metro is bigger, but it's also way more dense and served by multiple forms of transit and Amtrak. And no other metro even comes close to crossing as many jurisdictions as we do. Heck, Houston metro has more people than us, and it's only nine counties, with almost all of the population (4.2 million) in ONE county! We're known as the poster child for suburban sprawl for a reason.

This is why I am baffled at why so many people in this region cannot register how sprawled out we are in Metro Atlanta. The only saving grace for those other metros that are equally as sprawled out as Atlanta is the existence of extremely large counties like Harris County, TX or Maricopa County, AZ.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Which ones? Only possibly the big Texas cities and Phoenix can compare to Atlanta's sprawl. Sure, New York metro is bigger, but it's also way more dense and served by multiple forms of transit and Amtrak. And no other metro even comes close to crossing as many jurisdictions as we do. Heck, Houston metro has more people than us, and it's only nine counties, with almost all of the population (4.2 million) in ONE county! We're known as the poster child for suburban sprawl for a reason.

Sprawl has nothing to do with how many jurisdictions you cross; that is relative to geography. Hell DC's MSA covers a federal district and three states but that tells you nothing in and of itself. Georgia has relatively small counties compared to most other states. Yes Harris County, TX contains over four million people, but it's also over three times larger in land area than Fulton County.

In raw numbers, larger metros have more sprawl than we do--NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.--but the major difference is that they have a larger, denser core relative to the sprawl.

At any rate, as much as I am a proponent of smart growth, mass transit, and all that, this latest disaster has very little to do with sprawl; it has to do with errors in judgment and lack of preparedness.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

No, just no. Every single major metropolitan area in this country is surrounded by endless miles of sprawl. NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Fran, Los Angles, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, DC, etc all have the majority of their metro populations in their sprawling suburbs no matter how dense their central cities are. The idea that this unique to Atlanta or the Texas cities is quite bizarre to me.

Yes, just yes. Of course every city has sprawl. But Atlanta is the king. Check out the density of the other metros. Check out the percentage of people who live in single family housing, and the percentage of people who take transit or bike to work. Check the average commute times. Atlanta and some of the other sunbelt cities are in a different league.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Which ones? Only possibly the big Texas cities and Phoenix can compare to Atlanta's sprawl. Sure, New York metro is bigger, but it's also way more dense and served by multiple forms of transit and Amtrak. And no other metro even comes close to crossing as many jurisdictions as we do. Heck, Houston metro has more people than us, and it's only nine counties, with almost all of the population (4.2 million) in ONE county! We're known as the poster child for suburban sprawl for a reason.

Let's not get into this debate...every large U.S. city (yes even the ones with great public transit) has endless suburbia surrounding them and lots of them are as big or bigger than Atlanta. Look it up if you must and compare.

And that "poster child" thing is so old and outdated it makes me want to puke. Anytime anyone wants to degrade Atlanta that's what they go to. But there is just no convincing some people.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Yes, just yes. Of course every city has sprawl. But Atlanta is the king. Check out the density of the other metros. Check out the percentage of people who live in single family housing, and the percentage of people who take transit or bike to work. Check the average commute times. Atlanta and some of the other sunbelt cities are in a different league.

So we should all move into densely packed apartments so someone else won't tell us how sprawled Atlanta is. The damage has been done already. Instead of complaining we should be planning for the future.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by BlackPeach2

Next time the mention of the word SNOW should send up red flags no matter where you are from, because none of the Yankees who live in Atlanta now were able to save Atlanta from what happened tuesday evening and many of them were stuck in it just like the grady babies so...

Looking out at the forecast next week, there is snow/ice predicted again for Friday. Even if it ends being just rain, I'll bet you $1,000,000 6 million people will staying at home that day no matter what.

And lol at your statement about Northerners, but it is absolutely true. Of the 12 people on my team at work, here is the break down of their region of origin:

1 person from south Alabama
3 New Yorkers
1 Rhode Islander
1 Virginian
1 Chicagoan
1 Kansan
4 Georgians (including myself)

We were all at work on the day of the storm, talking about what we would do in the event it got bad. I, along with the rest of the Georgians, the Virginian, and one the New Yorkers (who lived through Snowpocalypse) agreed that things were about to get "real" on the roads and that we should probably go home. The Alabaman didn't know what the think and was panicking, while the rest of the team laughed off what would happen and were convinced that no matter what they'd be ok on the road.

When the first flake dropped, the Alabaman and the New Yorker who agreed with us bolted out the door. They made it home well before the traffic began. The rest of us stayed behind to finish up late morning meetings. By the time the snow started coming harder around noon. I, along with the rest of the Georgians and the Virginian left for home. We all made it home in under an hour except for one lady who unfortunately got stuck on 285 after picking up her daughter from daycare.

The rest of the team, (3 New Yorkers, 1 Chicagoan, 1 Kansan, 1 Rhode Islander) left at different times after the noon hour and before 2pm, all to OTP in Cobb or Gwinnett or North Fulton. The shortest time to get home for that group was 6 hours. Three of them didn't get home until after sunrise yesterday.

When I asked them all what happened, they all said without hesitation that they thought their driving skills would keep them from running in to trouble. None of them have lived in Atlanta long enough to see the streets turn to ice, and none of them said they had seen anything like it back home. In their minds, it was just going to be either loose snow or slush on the streets. They had no idea that streets can be iced up like that.

One odd thing they all said was that they that they never had an appreciation, even though they have been here for some time, for how hilly the terrain in Atlanta. One went so far as to say "The ice on the hills crushed my soul."

While we can sit here all day and talk about what the State or city should have did about the roads, one thing is for sure: For the amount of roads that we have, and the type of terrain, it would be impossible for us to adequately pretreat them all without spending 10s of millions of dollars. Without that investment, the streets are far too dangerous under those conditions to drive on no matter where you are from. I heartily predict, at least for those transplants who just survived their first true encounter with ice on Atlanta streets, will be making fun of everything shutting down for a couple of days the next time this happens.