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Old 02-24-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,887 posts, read 13,605,879 times
Reputation: 9170

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaddeus_Hewitt View Post
True..LOL. I dug a little more deeper in her story and realized she didn't properly train or socialize her dog.
Was the kid trained? Did it jump on the dog while it was sleeping, or in any way provoke the incident?

Probably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post


IMO if they want to ban "vicious dogs" then they need to ban chihauhas, they are the only dog I have been bitten by and I hate them.

Ditto. My dog has a scar across her face from an attack by 2 chihauhas. I despise those hateful, yapping dogs and I despise their owners. They think their hideous dogs are cute the way they chase people, snarling and nipping at ankles.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:21 AM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,741,279 times
Reputation: 8437
Also wanted to add that the site that ElleKay posted is a pitt bull hating and specific site, it only talks about pitt bull bites.

Though pitt bulls do have a high bite rate, they actually are one of the most popular breeds in the country. Don't know where they got the 5% ownership rate from, as last I read, pitts were the #2 breed after Labrador Retrievers.

Also, breed specific legislations has been shown to be ineffective for various reasons, some info from the American Humane Society (BSL = breed specific legislation):

Quote:
According to the American Pet Products Association, out of 73 million pet dogs,
31 million are classified by their owners as “mutts”.[SIZE=2]1[/SIZE] While almost all BSL refers to “pit bulls,” many
breeds of dogs have the facial and body characteristics of a “pit bull,” but are
actually not pit bulls at all, including Labrador retrievers, bulldogs,
Rhodesian Ridgebacks, mastiffs and many others.

I can attest to this in regards to pitt bull characteristics. The lab I grew up with from a girl and one I had when I got my first place looked very similar to a pitt bull but was actually brown lab.

There are also inconsistent statistics in regards to dog bites and how the breed of a dog is determined in regards to breed specific attacks. I read a while ago that labs were actually more likely to bite than any other dog and this is more likely related to the fact that they are the most popular breed in the country. Pitts were second then Rottweilers, though some statistics show Rottweilers as being above pitts in regards to biting.

The common denominator in dogs biting children thought is the lack of supervision. I feel for this family as they endured a horrible tragedy, though I do feel it helped in my own family as my husband many times thought I was crazy for insisting that the dog be crated when we are not in the room with our kids, but after that tragedy occurred he told me that he would never question it again. But if this mom had crated the dog or brought her baby in the bathroom with her (I'm sure us moms know we do this all the time) then the child would have been fine. Her time would be better spent IMO spreading that message - DO NOT LEAVE CHILDREN UNSUPERVISED WITH ANIMALS. Most kids who are bit or killed by dogs are unsupervised.

We also have to remember that dogs are animals. People are unpredictable but at least we can tell each other when we are uncomfortable or anxious and we have higher executive cognitive skills than dogs. Dogs are very much unpredictable and can have things going on that we don't know about. Even though I love my dog, I don't see him as family, I see him as a pet and I don't trust him around my kids even though he has been heavily socialized and had consistent training. We have him for a purpose - to scare off potential thieves, and he serves his purpose well as we are known as "the house with the big pitt bull" lol. And actually our dog, though from a breeder is not a true pitt. He is more of an American Bull Dog type but the county classifies him as a pitt bull. He is over 100 lbs and true pits are usually only 50-80 lbs.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,862 posts, read 3,795,272 times
Reputation: 1471
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Also wanted to add that the site that ElleKay posted is a pitt bull hating and specific site, it only talks about pitt bull bites.

Though pitt bulls do have a high bite rate, they actually are one of the most popular breeds in the country. Don't know where they got the 5% ownership rate from, as last I read, pitts were the #2 breed after Labrador Retrievers...
I openly stated that was not the article I was looking for, but what you're saying is not true. It also says Rottweilers are the next down on the list responsible for 3% of fatal attacks so it does not just target pit bulls.

Also, I don't have stake in the site I posted or an analysis of their stats but 2nd most popular breed in the US sounds like one helluva stretching of the truth. I can agree that in some neighborhoods pits seem to be very popular but not in most neighborhoods in my experience. As far as dogs considered vicious go, I've seen more Rotts, Dobermans, and Chows than Pitts. (Well, the Chow Chow is a bit debatable because I can't actually say I've seen more.)
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:26 PM
 
2,613 posts, read 4,119,014 times
Reputation: 1486
I guess what I want to know is, for all of the people who say that the parent's problem was leaving the child alone, what are YOU going to be able to do if, like AnsleyPark says, the dog becomes aggressive with YOU?

The reality is that there is not that many of us, adult or child, that could successfully emerge victorious if a pit bull decides that he is not going to do whatever we want it to do. The reality is that, if you think you could do something against 80 pounds of pure muscle (and pissed off to boot) with your bare hands and human strength IF the dog challenged and attacked YOU or your child, then I guess you are a much better pit bull fighter than I could ever be.

The reality is that we have alot of ego in what we could do if we are just around. Alot of that is ego. A parent can have a hole torn in his/her behind just like a child. It happens.

My thought is, what sense does it make to have something that you cannot reasonably control in your home UNLESS it WANTS to be controlled. If the dog doesn't want to be controlled, everybody is going to have a bad day...not just the child. In that split second, you have no time to go for a gun or whatever else anyone would try to use to defend against a bit pull that has decided to challenge you.

The only problem is that I see is that my little pom could never kill me...even if he wanted to. Im sorry someone got bit by a chihuaha but the chihuaha bite cannot kill. Pit bull, different story. You have to HOPE that a pit bull stays in order, doesn't get surprised, etc. Why do people want to live like that? I don't get it. I would not be comfortable with something in my home that could tear a hole in me and my kid if it got pissed off. That is putting quite a bit of trust in an animal. It wouldn't matter if the outcome of misplacing the trust was trivial, but if you're wrong, the outcome is not trivial at all.

This goes for all people who like to own rottweilers, presas (whatever that dog is called that is extremely dangerous), pit bulls, etc.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,862 posts, read 3,795,272 times
Reputation: 1471
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer View Post
I guess what I want to know is, for all of the people who say that the parent's problem was leaving the child alone, what are YOU going to be able to do if, like AnsleyPark says, the dog becomes aggressive with YOU?

The reality is that there is not that many of us, adult or child, that could successfully emerge victorious if a pit bull decides that he is not going to do whatever we want it to do. The reality is that, if you think you could do something against 80 pounds of pure muscle (and pissed off to boot) with your bare hands and human strength IF the dog challenged and attacked YOU or your child, then I guess you are a much better pit bull fighter than I could ever be.

The reality is that we have alot of ego in what we could do if we are just around. Alot of that is ego. A parent can have a hole torn in his/her behind just like a child. It happens.

My thought is, what sense does it make to have something that you cannot reasonably control in your home UNLESS it WANTS to be controlled. If the dog doesn't want to be controlled, everybody is going to have a bad day...not just the child. In that split second, you have no time to go for a gun or whatever else anyone would try to use to defend against a bit pull that has decided to challenge you.

The only problem is that I see is that my little pom could never kill me...even if he wanted to. Im sorry someone got bit by a chihuaha but the chihuaha bite cannot kill. Pit bull, different story. You have to HOPE that a pit bull stays in order, doesn't get surprised, etc. Why do people want to live like that? I don't get it. I would not be comfortable with something in my home that could tear a hole in me and my kid if it got pissed off. That is putting quite a bit of trust in an animal. It wouldn't matter if the outcome of misplacing the trust was trivial, but if you're wrong, the outcome is not trivial at all.

This goes for all people who like to own rottweilers, presas (whatever that dog is called that is extremely dangerous), pit bulls, etc.
Leaving the toddler alone with the pit bull was definitely a mistake. That cannot be argued otherwise since the child is dead as a result of that decision.

I have learned (fortunately not the hard way) that controlling large aggressive dogs is not my forte so now I have stuck with small ones. Even the small ones can be a handful sometimes but at least you have the physical size advantage.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
858 posts, read 1,379,220 times
Reputation: 722
Genuine question: For those who have pit bulls, why wouldn't you just get a different breed? I know they're nowhere near as aggressive as they're made out to be, but they are more aggressive than other large dogs, and stronger too. Why even take the risk (no matter how small), especially with children? What traits do they possess that no other breed can fulfill?
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,521 posts, read 2,230,486 times
Reputation: 1040
All dogs are different. I own a Staffy (Colby) and he is far from aggressive. I see more dog fights and aggression at dog runs/parks from the un-assuming breeds; especially smaller breeds. Owners have to take responsibility for the most part on how their dogs behave in public. With that said, dogs are animals with natural instincts; and behaviors can be triggered from a montage of variables. Last but not least, from my experiences with people, half these smart people out there can't truly discern a "pitbull" from any other breed they don't have intimate knowledge about. A lot of animals I have seen in Manhattan where I have volunteered at the animal shelter are not pitbulls; but rather a mutt. Half the time I get asked" What is your dog? It looks like a PitBull kinda." Only because I did not crop his ears. Aand he is from the quintessential bloodline for the breed. Just my pre vacation input.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,521 posts, read 2,230,486 times
Reputation: 1040
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Also wanted to add that the site that ElleKay posted is a pitt bull hating and specific site, it only talks about pitt bull bites.

Though pitt bulls do have a high bite rate, they actually are one of the most popular breeds in the country. Don't know where they got the 5% ownership rate from, as last I read, pitts were the #2 breed after Labrador Retrievers.

Also, breed specific legislations has been shown to be ineffective for various reasons, some info from the American Humane Society (BSL = breed specific legislation):




I can attest to this in regards to pitt bull characteristics. The lab I grew up with from a girl and one I had when I got my first place looked very similar to a pitt bull but was actually brown lab.

There are also inconsistent statistics in regards to dog bites and how the breed of a dog is determined in regards to breed specific attacks. I read a while ago that labs were actually more likely to bite than any other dog and this is more likely related to the fact that they are the most popular breed in the country. Pitts were second then Rottweilers, though some statistics show Rottweilers as being above pitts in regards to biting.

The common denominator in dogs biting children thought is the lack of supervision. I feel for this family as they endured a horrible tragedy, though I do feel it helped in my own family as my husband many times thought I was crazy for insisting that the dog be crated when we are not in the room with our kids, but after that tragedy occurred he told me that he would never question it again. But if this mom had crated the dog or brought her baby in the bathroom with her (I'm sure us moms know we do this all the time) then the child would have been fine. Her time would be better spent IMO spreading that message - DO NOT LEAVE CHILDREN UNSUPERVISED WITH ANIMALS. Most kids who are bit or killed by dogs are unsupervised.

We also have to remember that dogs are animals. People are unpredictable but at least we can tell each other when we are uncomfortable or anxious and we have higher executive cognitive skills than dogs. Dogs are very much unpredictable and can have things going on that we don't know about. Even though I love my dog, I don't see him as family, I see him as a pet and I don't trust him around my kids even though he has been heavily socialized and had consistent training. We have him for a purpose - to scare off potential thieves, and he serves his purpose well as we are known as "the house with the big pitt bull" lol. And actually our dog, though from a breeder is not a true pitt. He is more of an American Bull Dog type but the county classifies him as a pitt bull. He is over 100 lbs and true pits are usually only 50-80 lbs.
Just read this. You speak the truth
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,521 posts, read 2,230,486 times
Reputation: 1040
Quote:
Originally Posted by erick295 View Post
Genuine question: For those who have pit bulls, why wouldn't you just get a different breed? I know they're nowhere near as aggressive as they're made out to be, but they are more aggressive than other large dogs, and stronger too. Why even take the risk (no matter how small), especially with children? What traits do they possess that no other breed can fulfill?
The first question is loaded and I could give a rebuttal with all sorts of examples but it may seem too defensive for some of the people on CD. So as to address your question genuinely, I say that because for me, it is my choice. I have owned the breed for most of my young life. With no issues. My dog I have now is going on 7 years old, has always lived inside and raised along side my 3 year old daughter. And how would you deem the breed definitively more aggressive? What about Chows, Dobie's, Rottweillers, Akita's, Cane Corsa's, Presa's, Bulldogs, etc?? Only times I have been bitten by dogs were by my aunts chihauhau and a neighbors Lab that had gotten loose. Most people couldn't really tell a true Staffy from a mutt. So anything that doesn't look like a dog they can identify is a Pit Bull. Seen it all too often.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:39 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,741,279 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by erick295 View Post
Genuine question: For those who have pit bulls, why wouldn't you just get a different breed? I know they're nowhere near as aggressive as they're made out to be, but they are more aggressive than other large dogs, and stronger too. Why even take the risk (no matter how small), especially with children? What traits do they possess that no other breed can fulfill?
Honestly, we have a pitt bull because my husband likes them. I like labs and fwiw, pitts are no more stronger than a lab. The lab I had growing up was bigger than my pitt bull is now. He is about 101 lbs and my lab was 110 and was VERY stocky/strong.

Our dog is also not aggressive. Hopefully thieves in my area don't read here but really I don't have faith that my dog would do anything to someone breaking in our house. He doesn't even bark when he is in the house, only outside and then only if he sees someone walking a dog lol!

Pitts are not more aggressive than other dogs. I read a study that pitt bulls were actually less aggressive than other dogs, don't have time to google it but it was a few years ago. All dogs have the potential to be aggressive. And along your line of questioning is similar to what I stated earlier - why take the risk in having a dog at all? Ban all dogs, it would be easier to regulate.

Any dog can attack a child but from the humane society site I mentioned in another post stated that of the children who are bit or killed over 80% of them are unsupervised around the dog. Children should not be unsupervised around a dog. And to the poster who asked what would happen if I were in the room and the dog attacked - I would shield my child from the attack and kill the dog if necessary. The lab I had as a girl through teen (he died when I was 19) got pretty aggressive when he was older - he lived to be 13 years old. He actually did snap at my nephew once when my nephew was 3 years old but we were in the living room and we grabbed my nephew and got the dog away from him. Dogs have a pack mentality and if they are properly trained in most instances they will follow the lead of the master and submit to the master's authority. Dogs will not do this with a child who they may see as something weaker than them in the pack.

And on that note, the dog in question they stated was 8 years old. That is very old for a pitt. Pitts have an average life expectancy of 12 years. It is especially important not to leave kids in the room with older dogs. Our lab had lived through multiple kids around him but when he was 12, the year he snapped at my nephew, he was old and arthritic and was in a lot of pain. Like old people, old animals get crickety in their old age so it is very important not to leave old dogs around kids because they have less tolerance to deal with the pokes and prods of children.
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