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Old 03-19-2014, 07:18 AM
 
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This will garner reaction I am sure, but is it a need for more money that would fix the schools (instead of stadiums as you say) or are there other issues at play. Don't we spend a lot per child compared to other countries already?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer View Post
What's really amazing to me is how many schools are failing. The OP should not have to post here and try to find out if the school that he is targeting is a good school. They should ALL be good schools. Period. Radical concept but all education should be provided in a good and worthwhile setting that reaches the highest levels for all children involved. If the stock market operated this way of hit or miss, there would be alot more bankrupt people/companies.

The public school system should be ashamed in this way. They are totally falling down on one of the most important jobs in our world...educating the next generation.

Meanwhile, millions for new baseball and football stadiums.

And why is it a matter of parents kicking the school in the butt before the school gets it's act together? Truth be told, it should not matter whether parents are actively involved in a school as to how the school is being run. The people running it should be competent and together enough to do their job or get out of it. Point blank. The problem is that too many people are incompetent in our educational system and seem to be just sitting around waiting for retirement/pension.

Oh yeah, back to our regularly scheduled program of millions for baseball and football stadiums.

The U.S. has the best sports arenas in the world. No where near the top in education, however. What's wrong with this picture?

And Atlanta is following suit along with the rest of the country. We have kids sitting in trailers, 25 kindergarteners per class and building two new stadiums that we don't even need. WTH?

What I want the next group of people running for governor to do is tell us how they are going to fix the issues with public school in this state. The incompetents need to be called on the rug and evicted.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by noah View Post
This will garner reaction I am sure, but is it a need for more money that would fix the schools (instead of stadiums as you say) or are there other issues at play. Don't we spend a lot per child compared to other countries already?
We do spend a ton of money on schools in Atlanta and DeKalb and I agree that's not the issue.

In my opinion kids need help after school and at home. By that I mean structure and orientation toward education.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
We do spend a ton of money on schools in Atlanta and DeKalb and I agree that's not the issue.

In my opinion kids need help after school and at home. By that I mean structure and orientation toward education.
Actually, ATlanta spends far more than DeKalb-- use to be the most in the Southeast.

Atlanta has a huge commercial tax base -- whatever DeKalb had is shrinking (has lost 50 percent of its value in the last 5 years).

DeKalb use to be the second highest paying system in the state -- now it ranks near the bottom of the metro area.

While money won't solve all of education's ills, the reality is that the mismanagement of DeKalb and the lack of funds has impacted the quality of teachers in the system. There is a proven correlation between the quality of teachers and academic achievement of low income, at risk students. (Which DeKalb has 10s of thousands of).
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lastminutemom View Post
Actually, ATlanta spends far more than DeKalb-- use to be the most in the Southeast.

Atlanta has a huge commercial tax base -- whatever DeKalb had is shrinking (has lost 50 percent of its value in the last 5 years).

DeKalb use to be the second highest paying system in the state -- now it ranks near the bottom of the metro area.

While money won't solve all of education's ills, the reality is that the mismanagement of DeKalb and the lack of funds has impacted the quality of teachers in the system. There is a proven correlation between the quality of teachers and academic achievement of low income, at risk students. (Which DeKalb has 10s of thousands of).
Good points, LMM. I stand corrected about DeKalb.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:48 AM
 
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I was referring not just to local schools but as a country we spend more than other countries. We lead at $809B per year, 2nd is Japan at $160B per year. Per student we spend over double what Japan spends.

How 12 Countries Spend Education Money (And If It Makes A Difference) - Edudemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
We do spend a ton of money on schools in Atlanta and DeKalb and I agree that's not the issue.

In my opinion kids need help after school and at home. By that I mean structure and orientation toward education.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:18 PM
 
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Well, it didn't help that Dekalb County was essentially at war with itself for about 50 years. By court order, race was factored into every decision that was made within the school system. Education took a back seat to social engineering, and racial spoils took a backseat to governing. Maybe it paved the way for other school systems to integrate in a more positive way, but within the county it left scars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastminutemom View Post
Actually, ATlanta spends far more than DeKalb-- use to be the most in the Southeast.

Atlanta has a huge commercial tax base -- whatever DeKalb had is shrinking (has lost 50 percent of its value in the last 5 years).

DeKalb use to be the second highest paying system in the state -- now it ranks near the bottom of the metro area.

While money won't solve all of education's ills, the reality is that the mismanagement of DeKalb and the lack of funds has impacted the quality of teachers in the system. There is a proven correlation between the quality of teachers and academic achievement of low income, at risk students. (Which DeKalb has 10s of thousands of).
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:37 PM
 
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I think it is about money.
We do not have enough AND we are not spending it in the right way. We need smaller classes (which requires more teachers and more space) and we need to pay the teachers more so that we can rival other fields and recruit people to teach instead of going into technology, science, etc. If we could bring these people in the schools, which would take a lot more in pay than 50K per year after the person has been teaching for more than 15 years (that is what we are paying teachers - 50K for 15 years experience), then we could bring more value into classroom.

Also, the children get no workbooks and the current set of books are poor. Why? Bc the schools say the workbooks cost too much money. The other, better, books, cost too much money. Singapore Mathbooks, for example, is popular in only a few public school districts in the entire country...bc other districts complain that the program comes with consumable workbooks and they cannot afford to purchase workbooks each year. I believe one district is in Washington state where the parents raised money for the program themselves bc it is superior (after the school district said it was too expensive). Those kids in that district are currently smoking the kids in the rest of the district who are using the OTHER, cheaper math program. Wonder of wonders.

Also, the program requires special teacher training and therefore the districts say they cannot afford it. Meanwhile, Singapore is smoking pretty much everyone in the world in math and we SAY we want to be better but we won't buy the books that model the approach these children use to learning math. This is a decision focused on money.

We could have more money for separating kids that need more help instead of hopelessly "administratively" passing them along because there is no money to help them even if they are retained. We could have more money to actually not have the special education determination process so bogged down and slow bc the people that facilitate the process are spread thin over several schools that they travel between in a week's time bc we cannot afford to hire dedicated psychologists for schools to review the tests results, we cannot afford to hire other dedicated folk to administer the tests and they travel between the schools too. Apparently, it can take MONTHS just to get TESTED to see if you need special ed. In many cases, the kids are at the end of the year before they are classified and gotten into the proper programs. Some parents just opt to have their kids privately tested but that can take anywhere from 700-3K. Some parents don't have that much extra money just hanging around...so they wait, for the resources-strapped public schools while their kids languish in regular classrooms with dyslexia, learning disabilities and other issues.

We could build better schools instead of having kids out in trailers and current schools crumbling.

We could bring technology into the schools instead of only having it at schools where parents are rich enough or vocal enough to have the technology in the classroom. Every school should have the same resources. Not just schools with parents with more money; however, if the schools don't have the money for the equipment, from where is the money going to come? This is another money issue.

We could actually have a real summer school again for kids that need the help instead of, like Fulton started doing a couple of summers ago, CHARGING for summer school and making it just for kids that want to get a leg up for next year. Who the heck ever heard of that? Summer school is for kids that need to catch up. I do actually know of a child who WANTED to go to summer school after her CRCT scores were borderline in Fulton a couple of summers ago and she was denied. And the cost is something like $200.

In some ways, yes, it is the way we are spending the money. However, in other ways, all of the above comes with the excuse of not having enough money. I think there is some validity to that.

ETA: I think the approach of comparing the U.S. expenditure to other country's expenditures is like apples and oranges. The U.S. deals with a totally different set of cultural issues from other countries. What works there on a shoestring budget may not work here on a shoestring budget. These are two totally different places, our kids are inundated with totally different issues, there is a totally different level of respect for the level of teaching (and probably the quality of teachers), etc. Apples and oranges - U.S. and Japan.

For example, in Japan, being highly-educated is one of the most impressive things you can be. In U.S., it is being an athlete that is one of the most impressive things you can be. And we pay accordingly. Apples and oranges.



Quote:
Originally Posted by noah View Post
This will garner reaction I am sure, but is it a need for more money that would fix the schools (instead of stadiums as you say) or are there other issues at play. Don't we spend a lot per child compared to other countries already?

Last edited by LovelySummer; 03-19-2014 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:56 PM
 
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This. Who among us is willing to take 50K annual salary for 15 years experience? We are losing the best teachers (or those among us never consider teaching) bc you basically have to live a lower-middle class lifestyle to do it. You basically martyr yourself for your life's work. It should not be that way. You must be able to support your family and live. How can we get quality teachers if no one in the country is willing to pay teachers? Again, I ask, who among us is willing to work 10-12 hour days plus put together projects for the kids and with 15 years experience, get paid 50K? If you are willing and you can do a good job, please apply. That is the reality. More money towards salaries would help this issue. Teaching salary should rival the salary of other very important jobs. Instead, it is basically a blue collar salary...literally, albeit the folk are college educated and state certified. It is not a valued position in our country. Now, baseball players and football players, they are valued. Check out their salaries. Hence my example about the stadiums.

Also, about the money being spent in APS, I would love to hear from someone as to why there is more technology and resources in the APS elementary schools in Buckhead than in the part of Atlanta below I-20. What is the reason for this? It is all the same school system but the Buckhead APS schools look like mini-private school campuses with resources while the APS elementary schools below I-20 have much, much less in the way of classroom resources.

What is the reason for this?

The reason is that parents in Buckhead APS elementary schools are subsidizing the schools. I know there are literally foundations for APS elementary schools in Buckhead. Do you know these foundations have thousands in them just for the resources that the children need that APS claims they do not have money for? It seems that there is a bit of a dearth of money...even the Buckhead parents in APS seem to think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastminutemom View Post
While money won't solve all of education's ills, the reality is that the mismanagement of DeKalb and the lack of funds has impacted the quality of teachers in the system. There is a proven correlation between the quality of teachers and academic achievement of low income, at risk students. (Which DeKalb has 10s of thousands of).
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:17 PM
 
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Good point. But looking at the other side, some may say its just like how government jobs have been traditionally, you make less but have a guaranteed pension and tenure so job security is very high + time off during summers. Believe it or not the average teacher salary in Chicago is $76k (and in the recent past they all went on strike for higher wages), I can only imagine what principals and administrators make. Does that allow students to excel. If a teacher can't be let go for poor performance you could argue you don't get the benefit you are looking for.

Also, in the teaching profession, being a teacher is not the top of the career ladder, those that pursue promotions move on to be administrators that may pay quite well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer View Post
This. Who among us is willing to take 50K annual salary for 15 years experience? We are losing the best teachers (or those among us never consider teaching) bc you basically have to live a lower-middle class lifestyle to do it. You basically martyr yourself for your life's work. It should not be that way. You must be able to support your family and live. How can we get quality teachers if no one in the country is willing to pay teachers? Again, I ask, who among us is willing to work 10-12 hour days plus put together projects for the kids and with 15 years experience, get paid 50K? If you are willing and you can do a good job, please apply. That is the reality. More money towards salaries would help this issue. Teaching salary should rival the salary of other very important jobs. Instead, it is basically a blue collar salary...literally, albeit the folk are college educated and state certified. It is not a valued position in our country. Now, baseball players and football players, they are valued. Check out their salaries. Hence my example about the stadiums.

Also, about the money being spent in APS, I would love to hear from someone as to why there is more technology and resources in the APS elementary schools in Buckhead than in the part of Atlanta below I-20. What is the reason for this? It is all the same school system but the Buckhead APS schools look like mini-private school campuses with resources while the APS elementary schools below I-20 have much, much less in the way of classroom resources.

What is the reason for this?

The reason is that parents in Buckhead APS elementary schools are subsidizing the schools. I know there are literally foundations for APS elementary schools in Buckhead. Do you know these foundations have thousands in them just for the resources that the children need that APS claims they do not have money for? It seems that there is a bit of a dearth of money...even the Buckhead parents in APS seem to think so.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer View Post
If we could bring these people in the schools, which would take a lot more in pay than 50K per year after the person has been teaching for more than 15 years (that is what we are paying teachers - 50K for 15 years experience), then we could bring more value into classroom.
Can't speak for other school systems but 15 years experience with a masters degree pays $83,925 with Atlanta Public Schools.

You also get medical, dental and vision, life insurance, disability, 12 paid holidays, 1 day of sick leave per month, I day of annual leave per month and a retirement plan, etc.

That's not so terrible if you are getting summers off.
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