Old rail lines going through Historic Downtown areas hold prospects for connectivity. (Atlanta: power lines, employment)

[bryantm3]

Now, before I get started, I want to say many of these rail lines are currently used and at or over capacity, so this is WAY down the road.

Radiating from Atlanta's core, there are many historic downtown areas in all directions. The only thing they almost all have in common is that they are located on rail lines, and they were once served by passenger rail.

Take the line that runs out through Cobb, for example:

http://goo.gl/maps/Yl4uV

On *just* this line, you have the community of Riverside, Historic Downtown Vinings, Downtown Smyrna, Historic Downtown Marietta, Historic Downtown Kennesaw, along with Acworth and Cartersville if you head far enough north.

That's all the suburbs in that direction, just on that rail line. There isn't a street or any other type of transit that connects all of those areas besides that line.

That's not the only one.

Going straight east of Atlanta, you've got a rail line that connects Avondale Estates, Scotdale, Clarkston, Stone Mountain Village, Lithonia, and even Conyers.

These lines would be perfect for light rail transit and walking trails. It would connect Atlanta in a way that heavy rail and streets cannot. Imagine riding all the way through the forest from Marietta to Smyrna to Vinings and right into Midtown and Downtown on a light rail line.

The problem? Many of these rail lines are at capacity or over capacity, and there doesn't seem to be any end in sight for the use of these lines.

In addition, most of these lines wiggle and curve back and forth across the landscape, making a scenic ride, but not doing much for rail efficiency.

What if we could secure funding to build new rail lines, bypassing the historic downtown areas and going along major interstates? It would likely cut the time traveled on the tracks in half, allow for expanded capacity on the tracks, and would free up the historic corridors for transit and recreational use.

I know this is a long shot and it would cost a lot of money. But if we could build "interstates" for cars, why can't we run rail lines along them and take advantage of that increased efficiency?

Since tractor-trailers and trains carry the same type of cargo trailers, using interstate right-of-way would be ideal for marshalling yards to transfer the trailers from one to the other.

What do you think?

[gtcorndog]

awful idea. Start over.

[netdragon]

This route was part of the GPR Georgia Passenger plan and there's one more major issue that makes passenger rail not cost-effective right now until other things happen first: Typical commuter rail by itself doesn't make sense in metro Atlanta where employment centers are so spread out and not all centralized inside Atlanta. Most people aren't commuting into Atlanta. A transit network around the ten main employment centers and light rail / circulators throughout those employment centers are needed. E.g. once there's light rail down Cobb Pkwy, and circulators from that light rail, then commuter rail from the Northern counties would make more sense.

[netdragon]

Also, I'm not at all for bypassing the downtowns for passenger rail. Instead, how about moving the freight to the interstate, and then providing a spur to Lockheed? Then having the existing lines used for passenger rail.

Most of the population of the county is centralized at these downtowns, so it's natural for passenger rail to be there instead of near the highway, since it'll be a shorter drive for people to the parking lots/garages. It also is where most of the boutique shopping is so the stations could serve a second purpose.

Nobody lives on the Interstate, and there will already be light rail down Cobb Pkwy so that's too much rail density in a tiny area while not serving much of the county.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by netdragon

Also, I'm not at all for bypassing the downtowns for passenger rail. Instead, how about moving the freight to the interstate, and then providing a spur to Lockheed? Then having the existing lines used for passenger rail.

Most of the population of the county is centralized at these downtowns, so it's natural for passenger rail to be there instead of near the highway, since it'll be a shorter drive for people to the parking lots/garages. It also is where most of the boutique shopping is so the stations could serve a second purpose.

Nobody lives on the Interstate, and there will already be light rail down Cobb Pkwy so that's too much rail density in a tiny area while not serving much of the county.

that's exactly what i meant. i guess i wasn't clear about that.

[MattCW]

How about we don't spend the $110,000,000 per mile it takes to put Light Rail down while completely displacing the freight traffic and just run commuter rail using some of the same rails but with improvements. Actually for the distances involved if you aren't using commuter rail, the better bet is Heavy Rail. Light Rail works as a light-mile solution for dense areas and can share streets when necessary. It is NOT an end-all-be-all solution except in the salivation of some crazy urban planner somewhere.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by MattCW

How about we don't spend the $110,000,000 per mile it takes to put Light Rail down while completely displacing the freight traffic and just run commuter rail using some of the same rails but with improvements.

MattCW: I'm a bit confused, why are you talking about displacing freight traffic by putting down light rail? The light rail on Cobb Pkwy is planned for lanes that don't yet exist, because there is existing ROW to widen the road. You'll notice that there are tall power lines a couple dozen feet from the road, and nothing built on that land.

It'd be more expensive to run the commuter rail and less effective. Heavy rail is especially expensive and it wouldn't see the ridership to warrant the cost. I know many people from Atlanta view Cobb County as an area that commutes to Atlanta, but actually that's a minority of people. Most people in Cobb work in Cobb or the top-end perimeter, and a majority of the employment centers are along Cobb Pkwy and the density of employment is only going to increase over time.

One major limitation with the transit system in Cobb is not having a backbone with dedicated ROW. The light rail down Cobb Pkwy will solve that without breaking the bank.

The Light Rail on Cobb Pkwy is also for economic development reasons.

Believe me, the commuter rail option was studied a good deal over the late 90s and up to the mid 2000s, and it hasn't won out at this time.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by netdragon

MattCW: I'm a bit confused, why are you talking about displacing freight traffic by putting down light rail? The light rail on Cobb Pkwy is planned for lanes that don't yet exist, because there is existing ROW to widen the road. You'll notice that there are tall power lines a couple dozen feet from the road, and nothing built on that land.

I'm talking about the plan of the OP to displace the freight off the existing tracks and run light rail instead. Actually the cost wouldn't just be the $110,000,000 per mile since you're now building new freight track along the interstate highways (where rail-served industries typically aren't).

It'd be more expensive to run the commuter rail and less effective. Heavy rail is especially expensive and it wouldn't see the ridership to warrant the cost. I know many people from Atlanta view Cobb County as an area that commutes to Atlanta, but actually that's a minority of people. Most people in Cobb work in Cobb or the top-end perimeter, and a majority of the employment centers are along Cobb Pkwy and the density of employment is only going to increase over time.

So if there isn't high enough ridership to justify heavy rail, why are we spending all of this money? You could spend a lot less on commuter rail, the improvements would improve the freight system as well, and still have more capacity than light rail so I don't see why it's more expensive. The cost difference between Heavy and Light rail really isn't that much especially when you're talking about running them in basically the same manner. But I really am tired of seeing this myth that people from Cobb don't commute to Atlanta, I-75 from I-285 to Brookwood isn't just a two-lane highway, and it's not free and clear during rush hour.

One major limitation with the transit system in Cobb is not having a backbone with dedicated ROW. The light rail down Cobb Pkwy will solve that without breaking the bank.

And commuter rail could solve that with even less money. Though I actually see a need for both just as long as we don't pretend any kind of at-grade/in-street light rail can be a backbone.

The Light Rail on Cobb Pkwy is also for economic development reasons.

As would be commuter rail.

Believe me, the commuter rail option was studied a good deal over the late 90s and up to the mid 2000s, and it hasn't won out at this time.

No transportation options studied over those time periods have won out except more lanes on more roads.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I'm talking about the plan of the OP to displace the freight off the existing tracks and run light rail instead. Actually the cost wouldn't just be the $110,000,000 per mile since you're now building new freight track along the interstate highways (where rail-served industries typically aren't).

Ok, what confused me is that commuter rail like what he's describing is typically heavy rail, not light rail. The light rail is proposed and under consideration for Cobb Pkwy.

[demonta4]

Cobb isn't Atlanta's only suburb. What about commuter rail in Gwinnett and Clayton? Gwinnett's could connect to Perimeter and Clayton's could connect to the airport(or people could just transfer to Marta).