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Old 04-10-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
7,909 posts, read 12,173,501 times
Reputation: 5697

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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Btw, people who live in Manhatten call Queens and Staten Island suburban (they don't usually call Brooklyn suburban). Sure, that IS hipster attitude.
No, they are called douchebags. They are most likely transplants too. I'm not aware any native New Yorker who considers Manhattan a separate city from Queens, the Bronx, Staten Island or Brooklyn. The only call Manhattan "the City" because it is a hold over from when they were actually separate cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
However, there's also a HUGE difference between the level of development in Queens and Staten Island compared to the Levvittown bungalow neighborhoods inside much of Atlanta.
I don't see how you figure how most of the development in Atlanta proper given that most of the neighborhoods in the city of Atlanta existed long before Levittown was even an idea. Sure, parts of the Westside look like that, but they were developed as suburbs around the same time as Levittown and later annexed in to the city.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
7,909 posts, read 12,173,501 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
So, you're saying it's about geopolitical boundaries. If they had moved to unincorporated FulCo, would that still have caused folks to be upset? Not challenging you here - I just want to understand the upset because I'm sorta in the camp of head scratchers.
Yup. It's less about Cobb (though Cobb countians aren't doing themselves any favors by putting up signs like "the Home of the Cobb County Braves. vomit) and more about leaving the city itself. Had they moved to any part of Fulton or Dekalb county it would have been just as controversial. What actually happened is more of amplified because of the animosity between the residents of the City of Atlanta and Cobb county.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:52 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,443 posts, read 3,838,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Yup. It's less about Cobb (though Cobb countians aren't doing themselves any favors by putting up signs like "the Home of the Cobb County Braves. vomit) and more about leaving the city itself. Had they moved to any part of Fulton or Dekalb county it would have been just as controversial. What actually happened is more of amplified because of the animosity between the governments of the City of Atlanta and Cobb county.
Fixed. Most people that live in either jurisdiction don't really hate the other group.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,501,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
I don't see how you figure how most of the development in Atlanta proper given that most of the neighborhoods in the city of Atlanta existed long before Levittown was even an idea. Sure, parts of the Westside look like that, but they were developed as suburbs around the same time as Levittown and later annexed in to the city.
Sure a majority of Buckhead it's more like Mill and Ferry Rd type suburbs (like rural New England suburbs) with Levittown infill in-between than strictly Levittown. However, I come from New England, mind you, so Buckhead is as suburban as suburban can be to me. It almost looks like the town I grew up in, which was in suburban Hartford. In fact it's one of the least densely populated towns in the inner core of metro Hartford. There are multiple suburbs of Hartford with complete street grids.

If you grew up in the South, I could see why you'd consider Buckhead urban. However, if you're from the North like me, I just don't get it at all. It should be clear as day that Buckhead is suburban. Even the Northern suburbs are more urban in character.

In fact, it wasn't always Atlanta. It was annexed as well.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
7,909 posts, read 12,173,501 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Fixed. Most people that live in either jurisdiction don't really hate the other group.
While I personally never cared much for the animosity, it is certainly there. I would say though that it is much more common among those who have lived in the city and metro most of their lives.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Fixed. Most people that live in either jurisdiction don't really hate the other group.
Do you really think the governments hate each other? I see it more as competition for businesses. I think everyone's aware of the reality that both Cumberland and Atlanta make each other stronger.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,501,596 times
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Quote:
There are multiple suburbs of Hartford with complete street grids.
Here, take a look at metro Hartford to get an idea of what I'm talking about. Now compare the street grid to Atlanta. Metro Hartford is smallish for the Northeast, but even the suburbs are a lot more urban in layout than most of Atlanta.

Drag around a little on each of these maps to equal scale:

Inner metro Hartford
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hartf...nnecticut&z=13

Atlanta
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=atlan...,+Georgia&z=13

You can see how from a Northeastern transplant perspective, most of Atlanta is suburban. I'm not dissing Atlanta, I'm just showing you our "Yankee" perspective.

Of course, back when these "suburbs" of Hartford were built, Atlanta wasn't even a rail depot yet, and there were no cars to get around, only horses. So the grid of Hartford naturally expanded into them. Then it started running out of space and had to densify within that grid during times of horse and carriage, whereas Atlanta is only just starting to implode on itself due to traffic.

In the Hartford map, you can see the very obvious transition from the grid of the inner metro area to the Mill Roads and turnpikes and Levittown neighborhoods in the later suburban development after the 40s that occurred in the outer metro. What does that make Buckhead then, which is more like the outer suburbs of Hartford built in the last 50 years?

Buckhead is suburban. I know, call me a hipster or some other name, but even if you compare the Smyrna to Buckhead, Smyrna is clearly more dense. So I don't think this has to be even looked at from a perspective of someone from the Northeast. I just wanted to make it clear how it looks to us.

METRO Atlanta does amazingly well for having no well-defined grid and the cost of making arterial road systems suitable for dense development which comes naturally with grids. It's it's making great inroads at infilling to increase density and it's even possible the 5 inner metro counties and all their arterials may surpass metro Hartford, grid and all, in density. Wouldn't that be something?

That is, however, a metro thing, not just Atlanta.

Last edited by netdragon; 04-10-2014 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
7,909 posts, read 12,173,501 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Surea majority of Buckhead it's more like Mill and Ferry Rd type suburbs (like rural New England suburbs) with Levittown infill in-between than strictly Levittown. However, I come from New England, mind you, so Buckhead is as suburban as suburban can be to me. It almost looks like the town I grew up in. Which was boring as heck, btw. I would never subject my children to that.
You are still confusing development patterns and political boundaries though. Buckhead looks the way it does in many of it's residential areas because it was indeed a suburb at one point, until in it was annexed by the city in 1952. Since that time, it is has become more populated and more urbanized. The area around Lenox for example was once surrounded by miles of trees and few homes here and there. Now it has become the epicenter of high rises and other types of dense development. The entire district a hundred years from now wil be even more different than it is today.

This is how cities work. Take Manhattan for example. New York City once only consisted of everything south of Houston. As the years went on, and areas were annexed, it grew more dense. This isn't ancient history though. Large chunks of the northern parts of Manhattan were just open fields and former farms as late as the early 20th century (as well as much of Queens). Those areas were very much a part of New York City because they were with in it's political boundaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
If you grew up in the South, I could see why you'd consider Buckhead urban. However, if you're from the North like me, I just don't get it at all. It should be clear as day that Buckhead is suburban. Even the Northern suburbs are more urban in character.
Spare me the condescending. I have lived all over this country, including a good chunk of my life in NYC. YOu are the one that is having trouble understanding what political boundaries mean when determining a "city" and a "suburb".

Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
In fact, it wasn't always Atlanta. It was annexed as well.
No, it hasn't always been Atlanta. Up until relatively recent times, they were two separate entities. This is why political boundaries exist: to determine when a city begins and ends. Forget what it looks like, if political boundaries didn't exist a city could technically go on forever.

It is the one and only common way to determine what makes a "city" and a "suburb". Why? Because every city develops differently.

Why is this such a hard concept to understand.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:05 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,443 posts, read 3,838,987 times
Reputation: 2979
Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Do you really think the governments hate each other? I see it more as competition for businesses. I think everyone's aware of the reality that both Cumberland and Atlanta make each other stronger.
I didn't say hate, but probably more of a distaste if anything.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,243 posts, read 4,641,268 times
Reputation: 2739
No hate of Cobb County here, just on a mission of accuracy. The Atlanta Braves soon won't be in Atlanta. Its only right that a name change reflects that.

So lets not deceive people about the team. We need a name that is honest.

The Atlanta Braves of Cumberland

The Atlanta Braves of Smyrna

The Atlanta Braves of Cobb County

and maybe for Mr/Mrs Dawg -

The Atlanta Braves of Metro Atlanta. It really just rolls off the tongue.



Come on folks. Lets not start the team's new location on a foundation of lies.
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