Why doesn't Marta Serve Smyrna area (Atlanta, Marietta: sales, mover, violent crime)

[KevK]

Originally Posted by KevK

OK so I was a bit overboard with what I said. We northerners (I am actually a midwesterner) did not come down here and save Atlanta from being another Birmingham. And you are right about the Atlanta skyline- as I recall (correct me if wrong) most of it was designed by John Portman who is world famous and has projects throughout the USA and Europe. I was only trying to make the point that MARTA does not cause crime. The fact that it goes to high crime areas is largely because it was limited to those areas by the whites who were racist before "us northerners" from Chicago and NYC- who are used to having clean, safe and convenient transit systems came down here. (BTW MARTA serves Alpharetta and Sandy Springs too- hardly "crime meccas"). Therefore many of us feel that we should be allowed to have some say so or even vote again on the matter. I do not think a vote that was taken 40 years ago when the place was a hole in the wall southern town has any bearing today.

And I will add that there are only 2 southern cities (excluding Florida) that are vibrant and progressive- Atlanta and Charlotte.

[netdragon]

What about Miami, Jacksonville, Orlando and Tampa? Which of those are progressive? I'm not saying they are progressive or not progressive -- just wondering.

[Merin]

Originally Posted by KevK

That is because back then Gwinnett was white trash and they were afraid that blacks would move in if they could ride MARTA out there. But to the amazement of the white trash, it was actually discovered in the 80s and 90s that black citizens in Georgia had the abililty to ..... drive a car AND pass a license exam! So the blacks ended up in Gwinnett County anyway! So since the blacks are already there, the whites probably figure "oh well, what the hell maybe the train will save me a few bucks in gas and get me home before bedtime".

I have only living here for a few years but I have heard that Gwinnett used to be affluent. Is this not true??
In addition to not wanting to pay for Marta, peoples objections seemed to be with poor people have access to their communities. Therefore the issue seems to be more about class then race.
Fnally, this black member of the board disagrees with you throwing around the term "white trash" its racist and offensive.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by KevK

OK so I was a bit overboard with what I said. We northerners (I am actually a midwesterner) did not come down here and save Atlanta from being another Birmingham. And you are right about the Atlanta skyline- as I recall (correct me if wrong) most of it was designed by John Portman who is world famous and has projects throughout the USA and Europe. I was only trying to make the point that MARTA does not cause crime. The fact that it goes to high crime areas is largely because it was limited to those areas by the whites who were racist before "us northerners" from Chicago and NYC- who are used to having clean, safe and convenient transit systems came down here. (BTW MARTA serves Alpharetta and Sandy Springs too- hardly "crime meccas"). Therefore many of us feel that we should be allowed to have some say so or even vote again on the matter. I do not think a vote that was taken 40 years ago when the place was a hole in the wall southern town has any bearing today.

Why is it that you believe that northerners are "non-racist", while southerners are "racist"? After all, that is what you indicate in your post.

My own opinion is that the vast majority of people, regardless of where they are from, have racist beliefs and opinions, though most choose not to state them in this politically correct world. Racism, in itself, is not a bad thing, for it helps secure the larger family, the racial group, and the country/nation that racial group bonds. Of course, the US, ever since 1965, is no longer a primarily mono-racial nation, and it will be to its own detriment, simply for the fact that multi-racial countries are inherently unstable. Throughout history, multicultural and multi-racial empires have fallen from within. Studies have been conducted which back up the fact that in diverse settings, people are less trusting of one another, and innovation tends to decrease.

Yet, regarding the whole "northern non-racist", "Southern racist" talk, let's be honest. There's very little difference in the attitudes of most southerners and northerners, deep-down. Southerners have been exposed to greater diversity, by and large, and so their displeasure of diversity perhaps gets greater exposure, when compared to northerners who have lesser levels of diversity.

Regarding Atlanta prior to the 1970s, this town wasn't a hole in the wall. The metro area had close to 1.5 million people by 1970, so it wasn't a small town.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by KevK

What is so bad about Birmingham? Nothing if you like a place that shuts down at 5PM and where the traffic lights downtown start blinking red at 7PM because there are no people or cars down there. And the rest of the place marred in decay and having one of the highest murder rates in the USA along with its little rinky dinky airport that sits in a dumpy smelly part of the city (ever drive down Tallapoosa Street?). No thank you. Atlanta might have its faults but it is a cosmopolitan vibrant city full of people that do not go home and lock the doors at 6PM.

I'll not deny that Birmingham is less vibrant than Atlanta. Most cities with a 1.1 million metro population are going to be less vibrant, regardless of where they are located.

Much of the actual city of Birmingham is in decay, and I never disagreed. The southside of Birmingham, however, is okay, and most of their suburbs are nice. The areas of Mountain Brook, Hoover, Homewood, Vestavia Hills, Pelham, and Helena are rather nice. There are other nice areas in the Birmingham metropolitan area, too.

I've never seen blinking traffic lights in the Birmingham downtown, when I have driven through it on some weekends. "Lock the doors"? You know this, how?

The Birmingham airport is in a poor location, and it has contributed to Birmingham having a building height limit placed on it. Birmingham's even hillier than Atlanta terrain (despite being at a lower elevation) and lack of flat areas has a lot to do with its location.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by KevK

And I will add that there are only 2 southern cities (excluding Florida) that are vibrant and progressive- Atlanta and Charlotte.

Only two?

What about Raleigh-Durham?
How about Nashville?
How about Orlando?
What about Tampa/St. Pete?
How about Hampton Roads?
What about Houston?

There's also Richmond, Miami, New Orleans, Dallas-Ft. Worth, Washington DC (traditionally southern), Jacksonville, Louisville, Memphis, as well as other places.

If only Atlanta and Charlotte are considered vibrant, then you can't include places such as Dayton, Indianapolis, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Hartford, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, etc. Only Chicago, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and perhaps the Twin Cities would fit your list.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Merin

I have only living here for a few years but I have heard that Gwinnett used to be affluent. Is this not true??
In addition to not wanting to pay for Marta, peoples objections seemed to be with poor people have access to their communities. Therefore the issue seems to be more about class then race.
Fnally, this black member of the board disagrees with you throwing around the term "white trash" its racist and offensive.

It is true that Gwinnett County, overall, used to have a slighly higher overall income, adjusted for inflation, and that it used to have a higher quality of life in many people's minds.

Yet, Gwinnett County still has a good deal of affluent areas, particularly in the Suwannee and Dacula areas

One thing that has occurred, is that Gwinnett has changed very much, racially speaking, since 1995. At that time, Gwinnett was roughly 90% white. Today, as a whole, Gwinnett County is only about 55% white. Norcross has a high illegal Mexican population, which has contributed to the county's higher crime levels, loss of aesthetics, and vandalism.

My own opinion is that Gwinnett County (at least the western and southern locations) will decline, much like Dekalb once did, and that it will no longer have a decent quality of life for many residents. Based on trends, this will probably occur within the next ten to fifteen years.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by Scraper Enthusiast

One thing that has occurred, is that Gwinnett has changed very much, racially speaking, since 1995. At that time, Gwinnett was roughly 90% white. Today, as a whole, Gwinnett County is only about 55% white. Norcross has a high illegal Mexican population, which has contributed to the county's higher crime levels, loss of aesthetics, and vandalism.

When I moved here in 1984, Gwinnett was more likely 99% white and what we today would call "upper middle income". It still had bad traffic, but not nearly as insane as today. Any mention of expanding MARTA into the county drew huge crowds to the public meetings - all against the idea.

Today's Gwinnett is night and day different from Gwinnett back then. It has 2.5 times the number of people in it, and as you say, a much larger mix of people, including yes, illegal immigrants. While many who are there now would vote for MARTA today, many of those same people cannot legally vote here. Those who migrated from other area of the U.S. here who seem to rally for rail always seem to be too busy on voting day to get out and vote to help bring in transportation options.

I also do agree that yes, portions of Gwinnett will decline further. But it's not just Gwinnett. Parts of Dekalb, West Cobb, and much of Clayton County have slipped in recent years as well. It's a constant shift, but the problems and issues have to do just as much with the police departments and leaders (or lack of) in those areas as the bad elements who are moving in.

[ATLdecatur]

Originally Posted by beefchuck

Tell it how it is.

Many from Atlanta know that the reason the service is not extended is because of race and crime. Forget the tremendous benefit of all surrounding communities/economy including Cobb would receive from the rail line are superseded by the fear of Black folks from the city coming out to Canton/Kennesaw and getting jobs, procreating, being an eyesoar etc.


Classic high-level 10000ft racism!

I see your point and agree to some degree. However, I moved here from Chicago and in-town is DEFINITELY more dangerous in ATL. It's just a growing pain I hope, but I can understand those living outside not really wanting a direct connection to that.

[ATLdecatur]

Originally Posted by KevK

The funny thing is that, in Chicago, homes that are within walking distance of a CTA or METRA station usually sell for a premium over those that are not. So apprently having public transit rail around does not have a negative impact on property values.

That's Chicago. Chicago has a MUCH different layout and the L blends right into the neighborhoods.