New bike lanes in Mechanicsville

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Schemula

I feel you on that. Here in the O4W the bike lanes are mostly used as overflow parking for condos and apartments.

Report it to ParkAtlanta, they would love the revenue.

[thebigATL]

Schemula for mayor!!!! Lol

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by netdragon

You're both right. I was part of an ARC committee to really determine ARC focus. Our general consensus was that we need dedicated bike paths trunks and then can use bike lanes for the last mile and possibly sharrows on very limited-use roads for the last block or two. That will be partially guiding ARC in the future for how they seek funding, etc.

I agree with you that a full network should include both. I agree that dedicated bike paths should be considered for longer inter-neighborhood rides.

However, at the end of the day major streets and activity corridors can still benefit from bike lanes on them. One of the problem with bike lane planning is the best place to do dedicated bikeways are often meandering around activity centers, rather than through them.

Take the new bike lanes on Ponce De Leon for example. Moving into the future the only way to incorporate cyclists into the local fabric and economy is to give them full access to all the businesses along the street.

We still need to two things moving into the future, IMO. Is a couple of decades of a new culture of consciousness along bike paths, similar to what CQ is saying.
I'd also like to see more informal separation between bike lanes and the roadway moving into the future.

In many Northern European cities where biking is extremely common and popular the bike lanes along the side of the road are built more like half sidewalk- half roadway. There are two minor curbs that make it feel distinct from both the sidewalk and the road.

The American method of construction is to put the bike lanes fully on the road with painted lines.

The benefit of the American method is it allows bikes to use the same traffic signals as cars and sets a precedence for how cars yield to bikes on right turns. However, I like the Northern European Model for separate Bike light signals often tied to the crosswalk signals.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

However, at the end of the day major streets and activity corridors can still benefit from bike lanes on them. One of the problem with bike lane planning is the best place to do dedicated bikeways are often meandering around activity centers, rather than through them.

That has been ARC's focus until now and it isn't creating a grid of trails but disconnected strips that don't increase general regional connectivity, and they are the most unsafe aside from shared lanes. We re-focused ARC on heavy-lifting on trunk trails, letting local governments handle the bike lanes other than ARC providing guidance. ARC will still do bike lanes, but priority goes from separated trails with buffers, to bike paths alongside the road with no buffers, to bike lanes. The trails tend to stall and that leaves funds on the table for bike lanes. It was pretty much the consensus of every group represented in the focus group, including the ones I represented.

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

In many Northern European cities where biking is extremely common and popular the bike lanes along the side of the road are built more like half sidewalk- half roadway. There are two minor curbs that make it feel distinct from both the sidewalk and the road.

The American method of construction is to put the bike lanes fully on the road with painted lines.

We have very similar things in the Smyrna, Vinings, Marietta area. Look at Atlanta Rd in Smyrna from Ridge Rd to Market Village. And Powder Springs St in Marietta West of Garrison Rd. Or East-West Connector from South Cobb Dr to Camp Highland. Or Mt Wilkinson and Spring Hill Pkwy in Spring Hill/Vinings. Or Spring Rd in Smyrna until Campbell Rd. Not exactly the same thing, but it's a two lanes sidewalk, which is better in my opinion, since it's clearly not for cars and divided by a yellow line so clearly a two-lane sidewalk that allows bicycles.

Preferred, of course, is like Cumberland Pkwy between Atlanta Rd and S. Cobb Dr in "West Vinings" or Spring Rd in Smyrna West of Campbell Rd where the trail is separated by a buffer.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by netdragon

That has been ARC's focus until now and it isn't creating a grid of trails but disconnected strips that don't increase general regional connectivity, and they are the most unsafe aside from shared lanes.

I understand you're argument on disconnected strips, but .... That isn't about whether or not it is along the street of separated and off street. That is from the simple fact we had to start from nothing and build from scratch. It will always be small bits at a time, until it becomes a more cohesive network over time.

The area you're from in Smyrna is significantly more spread out and leaves greater right of ways to work with.

I spotted out Ponce De Leon for a reasons. Once you get away from the simple ideas of lone-range bike commuting and general recreation and focus more one tangible active live-work-play lifestyles involving cycling you really have to follow some of the busy corridors to promote that live-work-play interaction mixed with cycling.

In the case of Ponce all of the dense housing is along that road and is within a block or from that street. Most of the shops are right on that road. All of the jobs for that area are on that road. This means anyone living in the area and trying to use a bike get to work and social amenities and activities, they will need to be right along that street to do that. Any trail that bypasses large parts of the street will not connect all residences to all businesses.

Things like the Beltline will be great for connecting neighborhoods and will be great for new residences and businesses it encourages to be built moving into the future, but to access Ponce and all the existing businesses and residences... you're not going to find the place for an off street trail. But I do think there should be a double curb that is smaller in height similar to Germany and the Netherlands.
It isn't quite like what you see in Smryna where there is a bit more space on older suburban architecture, but what you find in the city center along activity corridors.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

In the case of Ponce all of the dense housing is along that road and is within a block or from that street. Most of the shops are right on that road. All of the jobs for that area are on that road. This means anyone living in the area and trying to use a bike get to work and social amenities and activities, they will need to be right along that street to do that. Any trail that bypasses large parts of the street will not connect all residences to all businesses.

What would probably be appropriate in Ponce is a 2-lane sidewalk bike path that directly borders the street, dedicated to bikes (since it'll probably see a lot of bicycle traffic) with a separate pedestrian-only part of the sidewalk, merging the two only at choke points. The bike path needs not only to clearly be no-cars and not just lanes, but also needs physical barrier to taking cars on it. Either a very large sidewalk with two bike lanes on the sidewalk near the road, with barriers, or lanes with tar with barriers. In both case kind of like those below:

[alco89]

Originally Posted by netdragon

What would probably be appropriate in Ponce is a 2-lane sidewalk bike path that directly borders the street, plus a pedestrian-only part of the sidewalk, where the bike path is clearly not somewhere people think they can take their cars or park. Either a very large sidewalk with part of the sidewalk set aside for bikes, or using barriers to keep cars off the bike lanes would probably work. It's too busy in my opinion to have the bike lanes be safely un-barriered from the rest of the roadway.

I mean, yea, but....SPACE.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by alco89

I mean, yea, but....SPACE.

A bike lane is a bike lane. I don't think simply printing bicycle symbols on regular car lanes is going to promote bicycle safety for such a busy road. So they have to go somewhere.

Another option for bicycles in Ponce, since it is on a grid, is to utilize the parallel streets (like North Ave or others) for bicycle lanes with connections to Ponce at each intersection, and put bicycle racks at each corner, wherever they can fit. Then you ride to the nearest corner on the side street, cut over to Ponce and walk the rest of the block. This would be extremely pedestrian-friendly, and only a slight inconvenience to bicyclists (some would use it, others may still go in regular traffic lanes, but at least they'd have the option).

Now, one thing I see happening at Ponce is that electrical poles are taking up some sidewalk real-estate. Take those out and put them under the new bike path, and suddenly there's a couple more feet of usable sidewalk.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by netdragon

What would probably be appropriate in Ponce is a 2-lane sidewalk bike path that directly borders the street, dedicated to bikes (since it'll probably see a lot of bicycle traffic) with a separate pedestrian-only part of the sidewalk, merging the two only at choke points. The bike path needs not only to clearly be no-cars and not just lanes, but also needs physical barrier to taking cars on it. Either a very large sidewalk with two bike lanes on the sidewalk near the road, with barriers, or lanes with tar with barriers. In both case kind of like those below:

The bike lanes are already buffered, add some armadillos or poles to separate the traffic from bike lane. Creating bike boxes at key intersections is key.