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One problem with the test scores, though: East Cobb's student population is dwindling and now those schools are being used as AYP transfers. If you go to Cobb's website, you will see huge YoY declines in SAT scores as well as percentage of SAT takers in EC schools.
The decline in persons taking the SAT's had to do with an omission of 500 students by the NY company administering the tests. If you look here at these results you'll see almost all Cobb schools had an increase, some very significant (see Wheeler) between 2008-2009. How is that declining?
Pope increased every year here. Lassiter stayed pretty much the same then increased. Walton dropped one year but came back the following year with a big jump. There is no evidence of declining test scores. You need to check your facts.
My parents live in East Cobb and are very much considering getting out. My dad retired in January and my mom retired about three years ago, plus my brother and I are grown, so commuting and local schools aren't a concern for them. My dad worked intown for 30 years and my mom grew up in Buckhead, so there are a lot of things about the city of Atlanta that they are used to and appreciate - it's East Cobb that's no longer providing them anything particularly interesting.
They bought a house up in Big Canoe in December and in a couple of years, they'll probably sell the house in East Cobb and add a condo in an intown neighborhood to the portfolio. It surprised me when they first proposed the idea, but it makes a lot of sense. When they're not at Big Canoe, it seems like they're always headed intown to go to a restaurant, shop, enjoy cultural activities, etc - I think that the only thing they actually do in East Cobb anymore is go to Target and Publix.
As intown neighborhoods continue to flourish and more suburban conveniences pop up in those areas, I think that families are going to start doing what they're discussing at younger and younger ages. I'm certainly never moving back to East Cobb if I can avoid it.
WriterDawg85, you may be failing to appreciate that families and neighborhoods go through life cycles. Both your parents and you are at life stages where the suburbs have little to offer you. I agree there's been a reurbanization trend in recent years and I think that's a good thing - better for the environment and so forth. However, I think your anecdotal evidence is primarily about you, not about East Cobb, suburbs or society at large. As you and your parents have gotten older, your needs and interests have changed.
When I was your age (from other posts I deduce you're a 20-something recent college grad), I thought I'd never live in the suburbs, too. And for all that we're currently encamped out in the Lassiter High School zone, taking advantage of the benefits this area offers families with school-aged children and lacking a truckload of capital, we look forward to moving back somewhere more urban after our child gets away to college. Unless metro Atlanta really changes a very great deal in the next few years, I expect our home will likely next be inhabited by another family like the one who moved in next door to us a couple of years ago. With the eldest of their three children about to start kindergarten, our neighbors relocated to put their children into the best public school zone they could afford.
When you write "I'm certainly never moving back to East Cobb if I can avoid it", I think I understand, because I had a similar opinion of the suburbs at your age. And if you plan to be childless, or you're going into a very lucrative profession, you'll likely be able to fulfill that intention. Otherwise, watch out. The day may come, some years down the road, when places like East Cobb start looking pretty good for your needs, for a period of time, although not forever.
Last edited by RainyRainyDay; 06-06-2010 at 06:27 AM..
Reason: typo
"The day may come, some years down the road, when places like East Cobb start looking pretty good for your needs, for a period of time, although not forever."
I think it is true that good suburbs are set up for easy living with children. Good schools (without having to worry about applying for special charter/magnet/etc.), sports facilities / programs, parks set up with children in mind, easy access to Target / Home Depot / mall, etc.
If you are yet to have kids, or an empty-nester, this set up probably has no advantage.
In metro Atlanta (and may be this is not unique to Atlanta), the problem is that these suburbs have moved farther and farther out (5 or more miles from 285), instead of being closer to the loop.
WriterDawg85, you may be failing to appreciate that families and neighborhoods go through life cycles. Both your parents and you are at life stages where the suburbs have little to offer you. I agree there's been a reurbanization trend in recent years and I think that's a good thing - better for the environment and so forth. However, I think your anecdotal evidence is primarily about you, not about East Cobb, suburbs or society at large. As you and your parents have gotten older, your needs and interests have changed.
When I was your age (from other posts I deduce you're a 20-something recent college grad), I thought I'd never live in the suburbs, too. And for all that we're currently encamped out in the Lassiter High School zone, taking advantage of the benefits this area offers families with school-aged children and lacking a truckload of capital, we look forward to moving back somewhere more urban after our child gets away to college. Unless metro Atlanta really changes a very great deal in the next few years, I expect our home will likely next be inhabited by another family like the one who moved in next door to us a couple of years ago. With the eldest of their three children about to start kindergarten, our neighbors relocated to put their children into the best public school zone they could afford.
When you write "I'm certainly never moving back to East Cobb if I can avoid it", I think I understand, because I had a similar opinion of the suburbs at your age. And if you plan to be childless, or you're going into a very lucrative profession, you'll likely be able to fulfill that intention. Otherwise, watch out. The day may come, some years down the road, when places like East Cobb start looking pretty good for your needs, for a period of time, although not forever.
I don't want or like children, so I see no need to move back to the suburbs in the future. I didn't even like the suburbs when I was little, and for what it's worth, I don't think my parents ever really liked it either - this was before much of the revitalization that has gone on intown, and I think that if that had happened earlier, my parents would have loved to have raised us in the city. Now that that option is becoming increasingly available for people that have "East Cobb" budgets, it wouldn't surprise me if that becomes an option that more parents that would have considered East Cobb take. Which would probably be nice for people that want to live in East Cobb, because home prices would likely go down.
My post was merely intended to be anecdotal, but in my parents' neighborhood, I've been somewhat surprised at how few families with young kids have moved in as other families moved elsewhere. The neighborhood used to be full of children, but the families that have moved in over the past decade or so haven't had as many, if any at all - in fact, a lot of them are older couples. I'm not sure exactly why that is, but I lived there for a huge portion of my life (also in the Lassiter school district) and there are indeed some changes afoot.
I think it is true that good suburbs are set up for easy living with children. Good schools (without having to worry about applying for special charter/magnet/etc.), sports facilities / programs, parks set up with children in mind, easy access to Target / Home Depot / mall, etc.
If you are yet to have kids, or an empty-nester, this set up probably has no advantage.
In metro Atlanta (and may be this is not unique to Atlanta), the problem is that these suburbs have moved farther and farther out (5 or more miles from 285), instead of being closer to the loop.
I think you're spot on, FromGA. I think the next stage of development for Atlanta and other cities is building convenient, middle-class neighborhoods (with all of the amenities young and growing families need) closer in. For the most part, not nearly enough of these spaces exist to meet the demand for them.
I think many parts of the Atlanta metro are going to benefit from this. People complain that Atlanta is not a "real" city ... well, yep. That's kind of the point. It is an urban suburb or a suburban urban space. I'd like to see Atlanta become the first choice for 30 something with kids who aren't willing to sacrifice the best parts of suburban living. Leave Chicago and NYC for the college kids and the empty nesters. Come to Atlanta when you're mature enough to appreciate a place that offers outstanding museums, restaurants, entertainment venues and good public schools and neighborhoods you feel comfortable letting your 10-year-old walk down the street alone.
To bring this back to the original topic though, East Cobb? Hmmm... probably a bit too far out and built out (on the old model) to benefit from this. And my abode? West Cobb? LOL... I tell my wife she's going to be INSISTING we leave in 20 years, and she's a suburban girl through and through .. she's the type of person who will probably want to live in a neighborhood with kids well into her 70s. She won't do hood though ... and this exurb is going to be just that if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly.
As it sits now though in 2010, my part of West Cobb is a great place to raise a family, and most parts of East Cobb have everything I have with even better schools. If I were buying a house tomorrow with all of my current young family considerations and looking for a place that offers all of the conveniences for my lifestyle (which includes things you can't find in most urban neighborhoods like a Home Depot in a one-mile radius) East Cobb would have to be high on my list of places to look. I'm not sure I would consider a house there an investment so much as perishable with a (hopefully long) shelf life, however. A house in certain parts of Symrna on the other hand? That's a potentional gold mine, I think ... especially with this Cobb light rail idea I hear being kicked around.
I think you're spot on, FromGA. I think the next stage of development for Atlanta and other cities is building convenient, middle-class neighborhoods (with all of the amenities young and growing families need) closer in. For the most part, not nearly enough of these spaces exist to meet the demand for them.
I think many parts of the Atlanta metro are going to benefit from this. People complain that Atlanta is not a "real" city ... well, yep. That's kind of the point. It is an urban suburb or a suburban urban space. I'd like to see Atlanta become the first choice for 30 something with kids who aren't willing to sacrifice the best parts of suburban living. Leave Chicago and NYC for the college kids and the empty nesters. Come to Atlanta when you're mature enough to appreciate a place that offers outstanding museums, restaurants, entertainment venues and good public schools and neighborhoods you feel comfortable letting your 10-year-old walk down the street alone.
To bring this back to the original topic though, East Cobb? Hmmm... probably a bit too far out and built out (on the old model) to benefit from this. And my abode? West Cobb? LOL... I tell my wife she's going to be INSISTING we leave in 20 years, and she's a suburban girl through and through .. she's the type of person who will probably want to live in a neighborhood with kids well into her 70s. She won't do hood though ... and this exurb is going to be just that if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly.
I'd much prefer to be living in your close-in "convenient middle-class neighborhood", WestCobb. If I could have afforded it when we moved here, I'd probably be living in Decatur or the like, today. I'm having trouble imagining the transition that you envisage, though. The next generation of today's massive suburban middle class population will somehow all fit around the perimeter, close-in, and the poor folk with social problems will spread all over the suburbs where we're living now? Does this make sense in terms of numbers?
I'd much prefer to be living in your close-in "convenient middle-class neighborhood", WestCobb. If I could have afforded it when we moved here, I'd probably be living in Decatur or the like, today. I'm having trouble imagining the transition that you envisage, though. The next generation of today's massive suburban middle class population will somehow all fit around the perimeter, close-in, and the poor folk with social problems will spread all over the suburbs where we're living now? Does this make sense in terms of numbers?
You and I are probably very similar demographic-wise, and of course you'd like to live close-in a "convenient middle-class neighborhood". Don't we all? The problem is not enough neighborhoods exist for the demand. I can't afford Decatur either. If I really, really stretched my dollar I probably could, but I can't bring myself to do so because the schools still aren't up to snuff (for the price).
As I said earlier, when builders are finally confident enough to build again to meet existing demand, they're probably going to build tons more of these currently non-existent neighborhoods in places like Symrna. Will usable land for them around the perimeter be exhausted one day? Sure... but the Atlanta metro still has a lot of room to grow. That's why I still think Atlanta has the potentional to be the city of the future. Some parts are a bit too built out in the classic 50-80s sun-belt way though, making a city "remodel" impractical or too costly. (East Cobb looking at you .. West Cobb.. you're too far out in the boondocks to even bother with until we've thoroughly developed closer in areas on the new model.)
If you're interested enough to read this article, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. It goes into more depth on these trends.. I'm just applying its ideas to the Atlanta metro.
I would think that there exist close-in suburbs (+/- 5 miles from perimeter) that are due for re-development. And they can be developed with *townhouses* to fit a large number of us, and with family living in mind.
Townhouses look out of place when developed 15 miles from the perimeter. But they will probably do fine closer to the perimeter.
"We sort of had to redial the entire company. Two of the biggest factors are developing more efficient plans; more efficient to build, and more efficient to live in. Secondly, we’re putting more emphasis on being closer to jobs, transportation, downtown Atlanta, the airport."
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"Along with [people saying] ‘I don’t want to pay as much for housing’ comes [people saying] ‘I don’t want to drive so far to go home’ syndrome. I think it’s all part of we’re a more conservative America than we were four years ago"
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