200-mile loop highway proposed for Chattanooga (Atlanta, Dunwoody: how much, tax, live in)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

Imagine how bad it would be if they didn't build it. When first built it knocked about 15 minutes off the commute from 10 years before.

Incorrect. Like getting high to cure withdrawls, more and wider roads only cause more traffic in the long term. Induced demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

15 minutes worth the billions is cost for the expansion?

That was for tens of thousands of people every day.

Would 2 billion be worth it to expand MARTA to Alpharetta to service a lot fewer people?

All of these projects are expensive.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Incorrect. Like getting high to cure withdrawls, more and wider roads only cause more traffic in the long term. Induced demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You misunderstand the concept.

Probably if you have lived in Atlanta the last 20 years, you haven't seen any roads built.

If you built a big new freeway in Buffalo or Pittsburg, stagnant metro areas that aren't growing, it wouldn't fill up. If you double in population every 30 years, yes it will fill up and development will tend to be re-directed near those new roads.

If you don't build, traffic will be much worse than if you do. Maybe total driving will be a little higher because of induced demand, but not traffic.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

You misunderstand the concept.

Probably if you have lived in Atlanta the last 20 years, you haven't seen any roads built.

If you built a big new freeway in Buffalo or Pittsburg, stagnant metro areas that aren't growing, it wouldn't fill up. If you double in population every 30 years, yes it will fill up and development will tend to be re-directed near those new roads.

If you don't build, traffic will be much worse than if you do. Maybe total driving will be a little higher because of induced demand, but not traffic.

I have lived in Atlanta area for more than 20 years. Reality is, there are much larger cities than Atlanta out there but few have freeways as large as ours and traffic as bad as ours. The correlation is obvious. Have you traveled outside of Atlanta before?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I have lived in Atlanta area for more than 20 years. Reality is, there are much larger cities than Atlanta out there but few have freeways as large as ours and traffic as bad as ours. The correlation is obvious. Have you traveled outside of Atlanta before?

I've lived in many places and almost no major city in the US has so few freeways in the central city (inside 285 for Atlanta). Atlanta has wide freeways but very few of them. Atlanta also has one of the worst arterial road systems in the country. One expert rated it next to last of the top 20 metro areas (I'm guessing Boston or Seattle was worst). Atlanta has built almost nothing since 400 was completed while the population exploded. So has the traffic. That correlation is obvious.

[JoeP]

Atlanta also has one of the worst arterial road systems in the country.

This.

While it's true that expanding highways creates a cycle and doesn't really solve the problem. For example, interstates around town and 400 all are very wide. Adding additional lanes really won't help at this point.

However, obviously more transit would and areas of this size should have trains going to some distance.
That's complicated beyond cost as Perimeter has become a top employment center, but many commuters are coming from the east and west.

Whatever the cost, that must be addressed. It will only cost more later.

Additionally and back to the above point, secondary rd are greatly lacking. I've mentioned this in similar other threads. There is no good way to get to Buckhead from the west. There are no arteries north of Paces Ferry to 285. There's no secondary option from Perimeter to Smyrna etc.

This is absolutely terrible. It's massive mess.

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by bu2

I've lived in many places and almost no major city in the US has so few freeways in the central city (inside 285 for Atlanta). Atlanta has wide freeways but very few of them. Atlanta also has one of the worst arterial road systems in the country. One expert rated it next to last of the top 20 metro areas (I'm guessing Boston or Seattle was worst). Atlanta has built almost nothing since 400 was completed while the population exploded. So has the traffic. That correlation is obvious.

Granted it is smaller than Atlanta, but Austin has only one true interstate highway running through it. Imagine how they are feeling.

Not that I'm opposed to new freeways. Quite the contrary. Just giving an example of another city that is in dire straits in that department. I'm all for construction of an outer loop AND expanding MARTA.

Add to that... I'm also for lane expansion of 85 north of 985. Even if it solves the problem for 5 years, it will help on so many levels. BTW, what ever happened to Born2Roll? Haven't seen him in a while..

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

I've lived in many places and almost no major city in the US has so few freeways in the central city (inside 285 for Atlanta). Atlanta has wide freeways but very few of them. Atlanta also has one of the worst arterial road systems in the country. One expert rated it next to last of the top 20 metro areas (I'm guessing Boston or Seattle was worst). Atlanta has built almost nothing since 400 was completed while the population exploded. So has the traffic. That correlation is obvious.

Atlanta has added more lane-miles every year. And we have one of the highest rates of lane-miles per capita.

More freeways are not the answer. We have been trying your suggestion since the 50s. It hasn't worked.

Plus freeways are expensive and drivers aren't interested in paying the bill anymore.

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Atlanta has added more lane-miles every year.

Maybe you know something I don't, but where?? I haven't seen any lanes added to ANY freeway since I have lived here. The only thing I have seen is construction of overpasses on 316. (Can't wait 'til those are finished!)

[ATLTJL]

Maybe someone can clear this up for me....

Why do people think that bypasses don't work in Atlanta? It seems to me that I-285 works beautifully.

Sure, the road itself is a total mess. But I-85 and I-75 are way less crowded inside I-285 than they are outside of it. The only exceptions are the brookwood interchange and the connector, but that's to be expected since you are merging major arteries into one. Aside from those, I-285 seems to work really well at keeping traffic minimized on the interior portions of 75 and 85.

So wouldn't it be fair to say that a northern arc would help keep the portions within its boundaries on 75, 400, and 85 clearer as well?

It might encourage sprawl and become a nightmare in and of itself. But looking at the singular goal of relieving traffic on existing highways, can someone explain why it wouldn't do that? I-285 does it.