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Old 09-05-2014, 12:48 PM
 
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Why does the middle class run to the front lines in defense of the 1 percent class? Why can't the 1% percent fight their own battle against the poor and working class? I'm not about to defend the merits of a wage increase, as if some how I'm the one paying the wages.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:57 PM
JPD
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
But the point is, a large percentage of people can be replaced by technology.
Its a huge dilemma for the future. I personally think the relationship between a person and their career will be defined differently in the future. Many people aren't going to be able to produce much of value over what a machine can do. Or, there will be more people than necessary. Its going to be interesting.
There are already far more people than necessary, and that's been true for hundreds of years.

I agree that automation will lead to job losses, but I think the example you offered is a bad one. Probably just as many, if not more people are needed to keep a food vending machines stocked, cleaned, and operating than any single fast food restaurant employs.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:57 PM
 
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That is the point many miss -- For those protesters who still have jobs they will make substantially more but as we have seen in europe business owners in fast serve restaurants who already have low margins will surely have to automate like europe has as the investment in tech will make sense and this will mean less jobs. More jobs at a lower wage or less jobs at a higher wage. Seems they prefer less jobs.

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Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
I agree. I imagine a fully automated McDonalds isn't too much of a stretch even right now...
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
When I grew up none of those types of jobs were ever meant to pay a living wage. They were filled by part timers-often students. When they went away to school or graduated they were replaced by other teens. The fact that some can live on minimum wage makes me wonder if they are paid too much?
If you pay unskilled people $15 per hour form their $10 and someone with a skill stays at $20, what's the incentive to better yourself to get to $20? Nearly all the fast food workers I see in my area are all adults-many hispanics, very few teens, but maybe it's different in other parts of the country.
It's all kids with a few old retired women where I live, but I live in an area that's almost 100% white

Honestly, these are the people that should be working these jobs. High school and college kids, or grandma supplementing her social security by getting out of the house and working the front till 15 hours a week.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by noah View Post
That is the point many miss -- For those protesters who still have jobs they will make substantially more but as we have seen in europe business owners in fast serve restaurants who already have low margins will surely have to automate like europe has as the investment in tech will make sense and this will mean less jobs. More jobs at a lower wage or less jobs at a higher wage. Seems they prefer less jobs.
This is happening in Europe, do tell. I find that European concept of fast food is far different and McDonald's and other fast food corporations provide far better quality, than they do domestically. Seriously, how can you automate Chipotle, when I tell them light rice?
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 965,868 times
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Originally Posted by onemanarmy View Post
This is happening in Europe, do tell. I find that European concept of fast food is far different and McDonald's and other fast food corporations provide far better quality, than they do domestically. Seriously, how can you automate Chipotle, when I tell them light rice?
I'm sure there were a lot of diners who said much the same thing about McDonalds back in the day. "Who's going to buy a crappy mass-produced, reheated burger off an assembly line when they get a fresh, juicy burger right off my grill?

The short answer is that fast-food businesses sell on price and convenience more than quality. If it's cheap enough, fast enough, and convenient enough, the quality is good enough.

You see these same arguments from all businesses that get disrupted out of existence. "They can never match my quality or service." Before long, they're out of business.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,243 posts, read 4,638,799 times
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Originally Posted by JPD View Post
I agree that automation will lead to job losses, but I think the example you offered is a bad one. Probably just as many, if not more people are needed to keep a food vending machines stocked, cleaned, and operating than any single fast food restaurant employs.
That doesn't make sense. Those people servicing vending machines handle multiple locations. The people stocking them handle multiple locations. A current fast food restaurant has to have employees at every single location during opening hours. It takes less people, thanks to automation/technology.

It seems like you are including distribution when figuring out labor for the vending machine but leaving that out when figuring the labor on a traditional location.

If labor costs go up, expect demand for advancements in automation to increase, leading to a loss of jobs.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:40 PM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,068,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post

It seems like you are including distribution when figuring out labor for the vending machine but leaving that out when figuring the labor on a traditional location.
You realize, I'm sure, that those machines don't actually create the food. Numerous massive production facilities will be needed to prepare all of the food that goes into those vending machines. Each of those facilities will employ actual humans. Lots of them. Very likely the same humans, for the most part, who currently work in fast food restaurants.

Now, let's look at this from a different angle. Automation sounds pretty good, but fast food places can get awfully crowded at lunchtime. All it's going to take is a few dummies who can't figure out the auomated ordering process, holding up the line, and people will decide the hassle isn't worth it and will quit eating there. Then corporate will realize it was worth paying all those cashiers and other employees to handle the crowds.

Fully automated fast food is never going to be the norm.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:48 PM
 
2,086 posts, read 1,806,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanarmy View Post
Why does the middle class run to the front lines in defense of the 1 percent class? Why can't the 1% percent fight their own battle against the poor and working class? I'm not about to defend the merits of a wage increase, as if some how I'm the one paying the wages.
If minimum wage increases results in a net loss of jobs and inflation that wipes out any real wage gains, what has your "victory" gotten the working poor? Everything that makes the "1%" squirm is not necessarily good for the rest of us.
There have to be better solutions out there.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,243 posts, read 4,638,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
You realize, I'm sure, that those machines don't actually create the food. Numerous massive production facilities will be needed to prepare all of the food that goes into those vending machines. Each of those facilities will employ actual humans. Lots of them. Very likely the same humans, for the most part, who currently work in fast food restaurants.

Now, let's look at this from a different angle. Automation sounds pretty good, but fast food places can get awfully crowded at lunchtime. All it's going to take is a few dummies who can't figure out the auomated ordering process, holding up the line, and people will decide the hassle isn't worth it and will quit eating there. Then corporate will realize it was worth paying all those cashiers and other employees to handle the crowds.

Fully automated fast food is never going to be the norm.
Kinda like how McDonalds doesn't make the buns, roast the coffee, or grind the meat at each location? Labor costs will absolutely be lower at a partially or fully automated restaurant.

I'm not saying the humans will be replaced as a whole, nor do I want that to happen, but many positions will continue to be replaced by machines. In the factories that make the buns or the crust, much of that is or will be automated. I love watching the "How its Made" show. There is a noticeable lack of people involved in most of those processes. There used to be a lot more. Like, exponentially more.

The whole reasons this came up is because when labor costs go up as drastically as 100%, there will be jobs lost in the process. The tech is there. It won't be every job, but I would expect most of what is beyond what a customer can see will be significantly automated.
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