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Old 09-19-2014, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,561 posts, read 7,645,653 times
Reputation: 4366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post

Again....the quote is NOT mine.....please remove me as the source of the quote. I don't want to be associated with such comments.
It is a flaw in the thread. Sometimes when you hit reply it shows two quote tags and one must be deleted.

Before you get upset at any one in particular... you made the same mistake and you also did it in your own reply on page 4.



What I find so interesting about the exchange between you and AtlantaIsHot is you are both making rather aggressive opinions and there is a great deal of middle ground in these problems. It seems as if you are both ignoring many facts to support your own arguments.


I disagree with AtlantaIsHot on some levels, because we are underfunding many of our schools systems across the state. There is a very real discrepancy in funding in some of our rural schools and it is even worse when you look at the racial demographics of a county. It has much to do with school funding being tied to the value of land within that county.


However, I disagree with you on two very big points.

Most of your last opinion rests on two main assumptions that don't completely withstand 100% scrutiny on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post

First off, black and brown are America's low wage workforce (to preserve the legacy of white privilege), and hence it sees no need to educate them and hence does not really invest in educating them.
AtlantaisHot wisely brought up the drop out rate. There is a very real difference between different populations within Georgia. To a large extent society has tried very hard to create a system to help anyone improve themselves. I understand the barriers people face. A great deal of education is tied to the help parents can offer at home. If the parents were not well educated to begin with, you can't realistically expect them to help as much. That is a problem of perpetual poverty in any society that we must try to help break.

However, I won't mistakenly blame white privilege solely for this problem, or even main cause, of this. In this context... it sounds more like a scapegoat to be honest. It is up to the students and parents to keep their kids in school. Education is free k-12... they need to take it. It is true drop out rates are significantly higher within the black community and some of this is an internal problem the black community really needs to come together and help fix. As a white outsider I can't fix this problem and mistrust is often so high, I can't even offer advice.

Now within my family and upbringing education was and will be strictly mandated within the social culture of my family. I can't do anything to make others have that. I can merely support policies that allow us to have public schools to accept all students for free k-12. Many minorities take this extremely seriously, but there are clearly large segments of the population falling further behind too. To the extent where it is the norm or more socially acceptable to not finish or succeed in school. There are limits to what I can realistically do to fix that. It is an internal problem within these communities and families too. What further disturbs me is that effort and drive to get through school is important in the private market. You can actually make good money being a career welder with a high school degree, but you also have to be cheap at first and work very hard and be driven to learn welding. Private companies will not take on a charity case when someone doesn't have the drive to succeed.


It is also worth noting that we have one of the most generous pre-K programs in the country that was hoping to get kids from more poorly educated families in schools sooner to learn basic skills to prepare them for grade school too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Anyone with an econ 101 course knows that when supply is increased relative to demand, that the market value of what is being supplied is reduced. Hence, in terms of wages, if more educated people were supplied than the economy has demand for, then the wages of educated people would fall because workers would underbid other workers so not to be unemployed.
This is the crutch of your second assumption. You're taking small parts of economic theory and ignoring others. Atlanta and Georgia as a region are in competition with other labor markets in the country. If we have more educated labor we will attract more educated jobs from other markets (ie. increase demand). Companies do follow workforce patterns and business leaders in particular are very concerned with the quantity and quality of the workforce.

If you look at places, like San Francisco, Seattle, or even new growing cities like Austin and Denver, they have a larger growing educated population compared to their less educated population. Inequity is a bit lower and high paying jobs are more dominant region-wide. The labor quality attracts the job quality.

To take your argument... if we push supply up, wages slightly fall... it -will- also have an affect on labor demand. Companies will see this and follow suit. If you hold demand fixed and change supply it can push wages down by $5k, but if you don't hold it fix supply can increase and wages decrease down $1-2k and the state is better off and there is more money in the community overall.

I know recently there was a great deal of talk about a shortage of computer programmers in the metro area. Many companies were looking at outsourcing operations to other cities and we further deterred investment from companies in other cities. Believe me, there is plenty of room to increase the size of our educated labor pool and have a positive affect on our regional economy.


An important side-note to this conversation... Gwinnett County Schools is actually a shining example on a national level for helping bridge the achievement gap for minorities and low-income households. We often advice people to go to certain school clusters over others, but once you account for demographics variables of the school population, most all of the schools are outperforming fairly well for all demographics groups independently.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,561 posts, read 7,645,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
It seems like red states are always at the bottom of the barrel...education, health and wealth wise. I wonder why that is?
I think some of it is just a a region that happens to be historically conservative and historically poorer from what it was mainly an agrarian society.

However, even though I don't think it is the main cause... I have noticed two arguments where I sometimes have a defense for some of the red states... on some subjects, especially places like Mississippi.

1) We seem to have incentives to make things as cheap as possible to attract investment. Sometimes if a poor state has issues getting their population up to par, they can at least try to make it cheaper to attract further investment that hopefully will lead to better tax revenue in the more distant future. It is pretty clear manufacturing industries are responding to this quite heavily right now.

2).. and I often bring this up on the extreme end more often, Mississippi. Unlike Georgia, there really isn't a significant wealthy population over even a large middle class for that matter. It really is a poor state. Whenever the federal government creates a social policy requring state funding, it is much harder on them to raise the revenue. On one hand they have a higher percentage of their population needing the social spending (increases costs) and they have less income per capita to tax (lower revenues). It puts them in a tough spot, especially when referencing #1 above. Typically, I support the idea when the federal goverment takes up a policy they can't push the costs on the states. It is a federal policy, then it should be completely paid for on the federal level. This would increase the inequity of dollars flowing between the states.

It is easy for states like New Jersey and Connecticut to support the policies at the state level. They are largely suburban, have a decent amount of wealth, and a lower percentage needing assistance, and are largely built-out states. It is no surprise they have an easier time to support the policies. It is less expensive for them and they have more revenue potential to pay for it.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,561 posts, read 7,645,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot View Post
If politicians controlled economies you might do something by voting Deal out... The fact that Georgia's economy (and others like here in N.C.) is still pretty bad has nothing to do with what party the Governor belongs to. Economic market forces devastated Georgia and the U.S. America has been spinning it's wheels economically for over a decade. After the 2001 terrorist attacks we went into a tailspin that we have not gotten out of yet. It had nothing to do with who was sitting in that White House. People in the U.S. actually believe that presidents and governors have levers they pull to start and stop recessions and business cycles. Even supposedly educated people fall for this. America has had booms and busts under Democrats and Republicans. McKinley (R) saw the U.S. become the #1 industrial power, Hoover (R) saw the stock market plummet, Roosevelt (D) had the depression, Truman (D) had a recession and fell to 22% in polls and lost Democrat seats in Congress, Eisenhower (R) saw growth rates of 6% or 7% a year, Kennedy (D) saw growth continue at high rates, Johnson (D) saw continued growth and declared a War on Poverty, Carter (D) saw the economy stagnate under stagflation, Reagan (R) saw the second longest boom of all time at 8 years, Bush 1 (R) saw his approval rate plummet from 91% to 30% after recession struck and he raised taxes, Clinton (D) overtook Reagan's record in the 1990's and became the longest boom ever, Bush 2 (R) saw overall lower growth, Obama (D) has had lower growth still and a very weak recovery. I am a Republican but I know that they don't have magic economy dust either. And I give Democrats their just due...
but you know what... they do control certain things that have a huge impact.

-Infrastructure funding
-GDP from government expenditures directly (there has been a large period of time where the private market has been increasing but the government cut spending and was the main source of further decrease)
-Education spending (both K-12 and upper education)

Especially here in Georgia we really cut back, even on road construction... just compare that one metric to North Carolina, a moderate Republican state more aggressively growing their infrastructure. If we really expect to grow at the same rate as the country, we have to make sure we have the full ability to grow. We have to make sure we have a quality labor force that can learn various job positions to be competitive. That is tied to education and is tied to education spending too.

Especially in the state-level in Georgia, Republicans have been the chief cause of those problems.
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,515 posts, read 4,250,200 times
Reputation: 2280
You may be at odds with the notion that white privilege share some blame for many if not most, issues involving minorities and inadequacies in education. But I'm sorry cwkimbro, I will definitely disagree with you on that one.

White privilege created the crushing generational poverty culture in the first place.

It was white privilege that undermined equal enforcement of property rights which could've propelled many black people into the middle class long ago. It was white privilege that prevented black access to federal dollars long ago to help deal with calamities like farmland famine or to fully utilize G.I. monies to pay for school and training. It was white privilege that chose to use inequitable land & neighborhood valuation formulas to deny black people full access to the equity of their land if they had any.

It was white privilege that chose to adopt vastly different crime enforcement standards that put people of color far longer in jail than they should be, if they even deserved to be put in the penal system in the first place.

These actions act in concert to create an endearing poverty culture that a lot of people will find it hard to pull themselves out of without the use of their own personal deus ex machina.

Man, it frustrates me to no end that intellects like you who have so much knowledge yet still insist on speaking as if your experience on all social, political, and economic matters in America...should be regarded as THE definitive source. And that the opinions and thoughts of everyone not of your background simply do not count.

Intellects like yourself simply cannot see in any other way other than your own, and that factor among many others can truly impede reformation in a major way.

In your own way, even if you don't mean to, you give tacit approval to violent-minded conservative extremists who would like nothing better than to live out their sociopathic fantasies and oppress those who do not look like mainstream Americans. Which is happening right now.

And guys like me are forced to shout, and scream against this madness in order to overcompensate for that aforementioned reality.

Because of the fact that this society as a rule of thumb, act with total aggression to utterly suppress our ability to speak freely and openly, through denial of media access, threat of economic deprivation, and outright police-state violence.

It's because of this tacit approval that America has backslid from its scientific prominence in the last few decades. People run away from collaboration these days and run towards religious extremism and bigotry...because an atmosphere has unfortunately been created where the opinions and inputs of all are not welcomed. And this attitude and others like yours cwkimbro, has created, nursed, and perpetuate this ongoing situation, whether you meant it to or not.

Sometimes cwkimbro, I wish that you had the good sense to get out of your own way when there is good occasion to...and see the bigger picture.

But your white privilege as imbued & continually reinforced in you by centuries of political, social, economic custom & dogma will simply not allow you to. Heck your community may not even allow you to...even if you wanted to.

Just my opinion, anyways. Take it or leave it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
However, I won't mistakenly blame white privilege solely for this problem, or even main cause, of this. In this context... it sounds more like a scapegoat to be honest. It is up to the students and parents to keep their kids in school. Education is free k-12... they need to take it. It is true drop out rates are significantly higher within the black community and some of this is an internal problem the black community really needs to come together and help fix. As a white outsider I can't fix this problem and mistrust is often so high, I can't even offer advice.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 09-19-2014 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
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Its probably because half of the USA population moved to Atlanta in the past 10 years lol. Not enough jobs.. California has this problem as well.. too many educated people not enough jobs.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:09 PM
 
Location: East side - Metro ATL
1,325 posts, read 2,191,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
It seems like red states are always at the bottom of the barrel...education, health and wealth wise. I wonder why that is?
It's because many republicans turn a blind eye to everyone else. As long as they are doing well they do not care about the well-being of others (Selfish is a nice way to put it). They (Republicans, not all but most) are trained and brought up to think that they are superior to everyone else, that is why they like to blame African-Americans and minorities for the problems that they created (The truth hurts but it needs to be said)!
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:47 PM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,861,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
It is a flaw in the thread. Sometimes when you hit reply it shows two quote tags and one must be deleted.

Before you get upset at any one in particular... you made the same mistake and you also did it in your own reply on page 4.



What I find so interesting about the exchange between you and AtlantaIsHot is you are both making rather aggressive opinions and there is a great deal of middle ground in these problems. It seems as if you are both ignoring many facts to support your own arguments.


I disagree with AtlantaIsHot on some levels, because we are underfunding many of our schools systems across the state. There is a very real discrepancy in funding in some of our rural schools and it is even worse when you look at the racial demographics of a county. It has much to do with school funding being tied to the value of land within that county.


However, I disagree with you on two very big points.

Most of your last opinion rests on two main assumptions that don't completely withstand 100% scrutiny on this subject.



AtlantaisHot wisely brought up the drop out rate. There is a very real difference between different populations within Georgia. To a large extent society has tried very hard to create a system to help anyone improve themselves. I understand the barriers people face. A great deal of education is tied to the help parents can offer at home. If the parents were not well educated to begin with, you can't realistically expect them to help as much. That is a problem of perpetual poverty in any society that we must try to help break.

However, I won't mistakenly blame white privilege solely for this problem, or even main cause, of this. In this context... it sounds more like a scapegoat to be honest. It is up to the students and parents to keep their kids in school. Education is free k-12... they need to take it. It is true drop out rates are significantly higher within the black community and some of this is an internal problem the black community really needs to come together and help fix. As a white outsider I can't fix this problem and mistrust is often so high, I can't even offer advice.

Well...white folks in debates have a propensity of trying to disprove a racial argument by virtue of debunking that its ubiquitous. This is kind of arguing a straw man because no one ever claims that something is an absolute rule, but rather just a general rule. If there is a room with 100 white folks and 90 of them are Klan members and I label it a "racist" class room, dissenters will focus on the 10 who are not racist and use that to debunk my claim that it was a racist class based upon the fact that ALL in there were not racist. Many whites seem to think that some black folks, like me, think ALL white folks are racist and do not know that all white folks are not racist and hence they seek to debunk the message by proving that certain individuals, themselves usually, are not racist and hence my whole argument is wrong. However, I digress.

Look...life is like a relay race. Each generation represents a leg of the relay race. Each leg gets handed the baton starting where the previous generation was positioned. Hence, white privilege was allowing whites a huge head start in the race. Economically it was akin to letting whites play monopoly for a few hours, then allow blacks to get in the game well after it started. Of course, by that time white has accumulated all the prime properties so every time blacks landed on a square they were owing someone something or being sent to jail without a get out of jail free card.

Back to the relay analogy, however. By whites being allowed this head start over blacks, white privilege, that head start became the inheritance of each subsequent leg (generation) in the race. Now, blacks could not make up or close the gap on white privilege by running just as hard as whites, because that would just preserve the differential. Blacks would have to be SUPERIOR to whites to close the gap on white privilege, unless society put as much energy into correcting the injustice to blacks as it did committing injustice to blacks....which it has not done and it does not due this largely because of racial attitudes towards blacks. So when I say something is to preserve white privilege, that is true, because not correcting the differential created in the past preserves the differential, white privilege, in the present.

There was a Harvard study that asked the question of why is the US the only White nation that does not have a European style welfare system and it conclude that whites in the US rejects it because the poor people who they see benefiting from it are black and hence whites are less inclined to support programs to help the poor unless the poor looks like them. Here is an extract from that study.

"European countries are much more generous to the poor relative to the US level of generosity. Economic models suggest that redistribution is a function of the variance and skewness of the pre-tax income distribution, the volatility of income (perhaps because of trade shocks), the social costs of taxation and the expected income mobility of the median voter. None of these factors appear to explain the differences between the US and Europe. Instead, the differences appear to be the result of racial heterogeneity in the US and American political institutions. Racial animosity in the US makes redistribution to the poor, who are disproportionately black, unappealing to many voters. American political institutions limited the growth of a socialist party, and more generally limited the political power of the poor." Why Doesn't The US Have a European-Style Welfare State?





Quote:

Now within my family and upbringing education was and will be strictly mandated within the social culture of my family. I can't do anything to make others have that. I can merely support policies that allow us to have public schools to accept all students for free k-12. Many minorities take this extremely seriously, but there are clearly large segments of the population falling further behind too. To the extent where it is the norm or more socially acceptable to not finish or succeed in school. There are limits to what I can realistically do to fix that. It is an internal problem within these communities and families too. What further disturbs me is that effort and drive to get through school is important in the private market. You can actually make good money being a career welder with a high school degree, but you also have to be cheap at first and work very hard and be driven to learn welding. Private companies will not take on a charity case when someone doesn't have the drive to succeed.


It is also worth noting that we have one of the most generous pre-K programs in the country that was hoping to get kids from more poorly educated families in schools sooner to learn basic skills to prepare them for grade school too.




This is the crutch of your second assumption. You're taking small parts of economic theory and ignoring others. Atlanta and Georgia as a region are in competition with other labor markets in the country. If we have more educated labor we will attract more educated jobs from other markets (ie. increase demand). Companies do follow workforce patterns and business leaders in particular are very concerned with the quantity and quality of the workforce.

If you look at places, like San Francisco, Seattle, or even new growing cities like Austin and Denver, they have a larger growing educated population compared to their less educated population. Inequity is a bit lower and high paying jobs are more dominant region-wide. The labor quality attracts the job quality.

To take your argument... if we push supply up, wages slightly fall... it -will- also have an affect on labor demand. Companies will see this and follow suit. If you hold demand fixed and change supply it can push wages down by $5k, but if you don't hold it fix supply can increase and wages decrease down $1-2k and the state is better off and there is more money in the community overall.

I know recently there was a great deal of talk about a shortage of computer programmers in the metro area. Many companies were looking at outsourcing operations to other cities and we further deterred investment from companies in other cities. Believe me, there is plenty of room to increase the size of our educated labor pool and have a positive affect on our regional economy.


An important side-note to this conversation... Gwinnett County Schools is actually a shining example on a national level for helping bridge the achievement gap for minorities and low-income households. We often advice people to go to certain school clusters over others, but once you account for demographics variables of the school population, most all of the schools are outperforming fairly well for all demographics groups independently.
Your economic ideas I also disagree with. The majority of jobs currently, and the jobs with the greatest numerical growth the last 5 years, are jobs that do not require an educated workforce. Lets not kid ourselves, growth is taking place mostly in areas of cheap cost, including labor. Yes, companies covet the best and brightest for their corporate offices, research or in high tech sectors, but this is a small sector of the economy and a small percentage of the workforce. Its not where the higher NUMERICAL growth is in jobs, but the higher PERCENTAGE growth is, because the total number of people employed in those field are really small compared to the number employed in many low wage professions.

All I am saying is that our economy has no need for more than 25 or 28% of the population to be "educated". Hence, it needs its drop outs and GED recipients to take those jobs that educated people would feel cheated if they had to do for the rest of their lives. They would then say that the American promise or claim that anybody can become successful if they just go to school and work hard is a sham. If you want to ferment unrest and revolt, have the masses of people go into debt educating themselves only to find out that there education does this no good. Its best to have people see themselves as failures for dropping out because then they can rationalize that had they not messed up in school, they could have been successful too and hence their anger is directed inward and not at the system for selling them a false promise.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,561 posts, read 7,645,653 times
Reputation: 4366
Acid,

I know it maddening sometimes to disagree with people on subjects that are some personal to some. You just accused me of me only speaking in a way to make myself the definitive source and only choosing to look at things through my own world view. There is a big sense or irony here... If you read your reply to me, in a very personal way it seems like you're doing the same thing to me to a great extent.

I'm going to try my best to not get too sucked into this. Once you take out the personal remarks most of the points you are bringing up are one-liners about other subjects. Each of which could be a long debate in themselves. Each of which are things I didn't bring up. We can discuss land valuations another time and elsewhere... that's quite a far reach from the subject.

But there are two big things you need to realize disagree with me or not as a whole.

1) It is not fair to me or others to simply disagree or dislike an argument just because you see it as a way to side with more violent minded conservatives. That isn't intellectually fair one way or another. It is the equivalent to trying to discredit your arguments simply when there is an uproar in the black community there are a few who get violent and become looters. It doesn't make the facts or opinions I point out any more right, wrong, agreeable, or disagreeable. My opinion is just that... mine. However others choose to take it... is theirs. I'm responsible for what I say. They are responsible for what they say and I'm not responsible for them. This can't be treated like a simple two-team battle.

However the way you are trying to blame me for others and discredit me and my arguments by linking me with outside parties you see as worse off at the end of the day is just unproductive and completely not fair to the discussion at hand.


2) You spend a great deal of time discussing white privilege, yet you never discuss it in the context of this actual situation. The real and/or perception of white privilege for every single different situation can not continually be used an excuse for every personal short-coming for someone who isn't white. I never argued white privilege does not exist. I never argued there were not significant barriers that existed both past and present, however we have been eroding those barriers significantly over time. At some point there are some issues that exist that are things not directly the cause of white privilege in the year 2014. More importantly there are some things whites can not adjust their behavior to in any way to level any playing field and fix. You talk about some things being maddening, many people in the white community are tired of being criticized for the myriad of things they can not control or influence, particularly on narrowly tailored subjects that directly relate to the personal choices individuals must make for themselves.

I made my comments narrowly tailored specifically to the subject of kids going to school, not dropping out, and graduating. K-12 education is free, has free transportation, and has work that the personal individual must accomplish to complete. Too many are not doing just that. That is not something white privlege is causing 'nor is it anything anyone in the white community can do to change this. Despite any other problems, there are some things people have to do for themselves. Despite any other inequities that exist, the economic research shows time and time again having that diploma is a significant difference in the life of that worker than not having it. K-12 schooling has very few barriers and ultimately it takes a larger degree of personal choice and effort to stick with it. When it comes to actions from the government and actions from white community there really isn't much actively happening to keep kids out of school. There is no privilege we are taking for ourselves and preventing large parts of the black community from going to school.

You accuse me of impeding reformation in a major way.... In this subject the problem is not something I or the white community on their own can reform. That is the problem, we can't be the sole blame and solution for every problem. Somewhere there is a point where personal will and choice of both the individual and the immediate local community and family unit they live in come in to play. Somewhere personality responsibility must come into play.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,561 posts, read 7,645,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Well...white folks in debates have a propensity of trying to disprove a racial argument by virtue of debunking that its ubiquitous. This is kind of arguing a straw man because no one ever claims that something is an absolute rule, but rather just a general rule. If there is a room with 100 white folks and 90 of them are Klan members and I label it a "racist" class room, dissenters will focus on the 10 who are not racist and use that to debunk my claim that it was a racist class based upon the fact that ALL in there were not racist. Many whites seem to think that some black folks, like me, think ALL white folks are racist and do not know that all white folks are not racist and hence they seek to debunk the message by proving that certain individuals, themselves usually, are not racist and hence my whole argument is wrong. However, I digress.
I'm not even sure where to start with this.... That wasn't what I was doing at all. Also since when in our modern world is it common that a classroom of 100 white kids has 90 klan members? Using that to lead into your second argument is just jaw-droppingly confusing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Look...life is like a relay race. Each generation represents a leg of the relay race. Each leg gets handed the baton starting where the previous generation was positioned. Hence, white privilege was allowing whites a huge head start in the race. Economically it was akin to letting whites play monopoly for a few hours, then allow blacks to get in the game well after it started. Of course, by that time white has accumulated all the prime properties so every time blacks landed on a square they were owing someone something or being sent to jail without a get out of jail free card.
Not that this example is really offering any real tangible details or arguments in the situation... My reply for this given situation is rolling the dice and passing go is the place to start. Rolling the dice meaning taking the free education that is given every kid in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post

Your economic ideas I also disagree with. The majority of jobs currently, and the jobs with the greatest numerical growth the last 5 years, are jobs that do not require an educated workforce. Lets not kid ourselves, growth is taking place mostly in areas of cheap cost, including labor. Yes, companies covet the best and brightest for their corporate offices, research or in high tech sectors, but this is a small sector of the economy and a small percentage of the workforce. Its not where the higher NUMERICAL growth is in jobs, but the higher PERCENTAGE growth is, because the total number of people employed in those field are really small compared to the number employed in many low wage professions.

All I am saying is that our economy has no need for more than 25 or 28% of the population to be "educated". Hence, it needs its drop outs and GED recipients to take those jobs that educated people would feel cheated if they had to do for the rest of their lives. They would then say that the American promise or claim that anybody can become successful if they just go to school and work hard is a sham. If you want to ferment unrest and revolt, have the masses of people go into debt educating themselves only to find out that there education does this no good. Its best to have people see themselves as failures for dropping out because then they can rationalize that had they not messed up in school, they could have been successful too and hence their anger is directed inward and not at the system for selling them a false promise.
disagree with this all you want, but you did completely ignore that both the supply and demand curves shift.

You are ignoring that there are other regions, cities, and states out-competing us right now in attracting high-wage jobs and work pool. There are some places across the country doing very well that are attracting more of the good jobs that do exist than we are. That means there is room for us to compete.

I even spotted out a particular example that Atlanta has outwardly had a problem with lately. We have lost out on some software development to a lack of labor that is in a surplus out west and in cities like Denver and Dallas right now.

Not that any of this properly connects the dots at how we are somehow purposely creating a society with uneducated people for our own benefit.


If what you said was true... the average college degree holder would not make significantly more money than those with less education. The average hs diploma would not make signicantly more money than those who don't graduate.

Lastly, in reference to bolded above.... the economic research time and time again is showing those who go to school and succeed are continually economically out-competing those who don't. There is still value to being more educated and we are far from the point where there is no value added to having a diploma and no value added to having a college degree.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:21 PM
 
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I would point out that the largest jobs producer is red state Texas.

I did my part for Georgia by leaving...you're welcome. Some of Georgia's woes could be attributed to people getting back in the work force job search, feeling it's a good time to do so.
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