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Old 10-14-2014, 10:14 AM
 
2,613 posts, read 4,124,289 times
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I think the main problem is that the state of Georgia keeps fiddling with it to the extent that it is not what it originally was. When I received it in 1994 or so, it was anyone can have it if Ga resident graduating from a Ga high school with a 3.0. They need to go back to that and invest in education. The problem is that politicians find a way to undo everything and keep lining their pockets all the while. Just give up the money for education. Period. Give it to everyone graduating with a 3.0 from their respective high school and stop all this other crap is what I say. Kids have no control over where they live and what school they go to...and the state of Ga (I believe) has the money but they don't want to fork it over. I do not believe we suddenly, as a state (when adjusted for inflation) have less money now for education than we had back in 1994 when it was freely available to everyone who had a 3.0 at high school graduation.

And if we suddenly have less money than make everyone who graduated with Hope pay back a one-time fee of $1000 and be done with it. Re-invest that money and let it be used for any shortage with current students.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkeating View Post
Agree that we should not drive people into the college loan ecosystem, but wouldn't giving poorer kids HOPE relieve them if it paid a high enough percentage of costs?

The HOPE scholarship is kind of weird in that it's a voluntary redistribution from the poor to the rich. Politically messing with HOPE is a nonstarter, because the north metro parents (whose kids get the scholarship) feel entitled to the money now, even though they don't pay much for it. I guess the argument is, we put aside our moral compunction against gambling to vote for HOPE only on the condition that it not be means-based.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,736 posts, read 13,291,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL Golfer View Post
Yay or nay? Seeing the AJC article where Carter reversed course on the subject where he initially wanted caps in place.

I, for one, would not mind if income caps were put into place. Families that are well off should not need the assistance or the same level of assistance. Whereas families that do need the help, the student is more than likely going to leave college with a mountain of debt.

Personally, I think it should be a sliding scale. Assistance is fully utilized for households under $100k, 75% $100-150k, 50% $150-200k, 25% $200-300k and completely phased out for families $300k+...or something along those lines.

Additionally, families with disposable income get to take advantage of the state's 529 plans.

This is an old argument, but just curious what perhaps people think.
A 529 Plan is a far cry from a HOPE scholarship. No, I fervently disagree that HOPE should be capped. I don't think that government programs must, as a rule, be needs-based. The HOPE is an investment in our schools and state future - our kids. Should be all merit-based in my opinion.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:57 AM
 
445 posts, read 513,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
I don't think that government programs must, as a rule, be needs-based. .
I agree, but it seems like this government program, which is funded disproportionately by the "needy"--who probably shouldn't be playing the lottery but are--is particularly well-suited to be needs-based. With other government programs, a big argument against them is that they redistribute money to those who didn't contribute to the pot. Here, it's the opposite--it's the people in Cordele and Chatsworth who are disproportionately putting money into the pot, and the parents and kids in South Forsyth and East Cobb are disproportionately benefiting. There's not as strong a moral argument for keeping this as a straight merit scholarship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
The HOPE is an investment in our schools and state future - our kids. Should be all merit-based in my opinion .
HOPE is an investment in certain kids in Georgia. I know I benefited a lot from HOPE, but there are kids elsewhere in Georgia, whose parents had less and who had fewer opportunities, who would benefit more. The argument seems to be that keeping the best in brightest in Georgia is better than benefiting Georgia students more equitably. That may be the case, but I think we should recognize what kids and what areas of the state we are talking about when we say that HOPE is an investment in them. All of "our kids" don't live in the north metro.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:54 AM
 
222 posts, read 230,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL Golfer View Post

How? Kids are going to college with or without scholarship. I fail to see how they are impacted at all. EDIT ...I suppose their inheritance will be a little lower when the time comes.
I must have missed where it became mandatory that rich parents pay for their kids education?

I had quite a few friends growing up whose parents told them they were responsible for paying for their own college education.

Should they be punished because their parents make too much money but refuse to pay for their college education?
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:48 PM
 
989 posts, read 1,737,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubie16 View Post
I must have missed where it became mandatory that rich parents pay for their kids education?

I had quite a few friends growing up whose parents told them they were responsible for paying for their own college education.

Should they be punished because their parents make too much money but refuse to pay for their college education?
You missed the part, where hope money is generated from poor and working class families and redistributed to middle class and upper class families. This is one of the few redistributions that middle class family get, but only on the backs of the poor and working class.
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:54 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 3,407,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
A 529 Plan is a far cry from a HOPE scholarship. No, I fervently disagree that HOPE should be capped. I don't think that government programs must, as a rule, be needs-based. The HOPE is an investment in our schools and state future - our kids. Should be all merit-based in my opinion.
The point was they have ability to save for college. And save at preferred terms assuming the market performs. Whereas lower income families don't have a dime in the bank for college. They don't get to take advantage of 529 plans.

Quote:
I must have missed where it became mandatory that rich parents pay for their kids education?
I get this argument, and it is a valid one, however your points of reference I have to believe are the exception and not the norm. I grew up in a middle class area with also a fair amount of wealthy people. I don't know one person who had to take out a student loan or pay for their schooling and 90% of my friends went out of state including myself...Hope was just starting. I know a few folks who had to supplement their living expenses by taking jobs on campus and such, but no one had to bare the full freight.

Their parents had the money and they paid for their college.

Where there is income, bottom line 99% of the time parents are the beneficiaries of the program, not the student. I apologize for the outliers whose rich parents won't pay for their schooling. At least they will have their inheritance.

Quote:
Look, maybe you are thinking that a family that makes $150K has somehow a ton of cash to just throw at a college. I think you are not understanding that just because there is a significant income does not mean that there is significant cash to toss at a school in lump sums. If we are talking about the 1% then maybe but then again, the 1%'s children are probably not going to public school.
The family that has $150k income should have a 529 plan. Under what I proposed in the initial post, this family would be subsidized to the tune of 50% of costs + a 529 plan which should work out to a fairly affordable education out of pocket...they wouldn't be taking on the full freight. If there is a gap, I'm sure their earnings could fill it, the kid can get a part-time job, and gasp they also have the option to take on a student loan for less than 25% of the cost of college assuming the 529 plan can cover 25% .
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Old 10-14-2014, 01:02 PM
fzx
 
399 posts, read 509,685 times
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Since when is college education mandatory? College education is an investment and both costs and benefits should be examed. If taking out a loan does not make sense, then do not take the course. Market forces should direct people to choose a good education rather than an education.

College is for the ones most fit to benefit. It should not be a handout for everyone. The income based scholarship should be at more junior levels.

The inflation in education over the last decade coexists with huge government handouts. It is possible that the so called need based aids actually dilute the value of the high education and force everybody to pay for that.

Last edited by fzx; 10-14-2014 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:11 PM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,364 posts, read 43,832,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer View Post
I think it's an academic-based scholarship so income of the parents should not matter. If the kid qualifies, the state just needs to give up the money instead of constantly putting up more and more barriers to the Hope scholarship, which is what the state is constantly doing over time.
Bingo. Something like this little end-run was inevitable.
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,209 posts, read 4,711,400 times
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I doesn't think this is the right move. Even though I'm low income doesn't mean that other students should be getting less. If they made another separate scholarship for low income families that would be okay.
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:23 PM
 
13,976 posts, read 25,852,870 times
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HOPE doesn't cover 100% of tuition anymore. The Zell Miller scholarship does, but that's even more difficult to attain. I had one son keep Zell Miller monies all 4 years, and another who came tantalizingly close to getting any HOPE money at all, but always ended up just short.

I like the way it's currently set up, just fine.
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