U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-12-2014, 12:25 PM
 
29,251 posts, read 26,188,598 times
Reputation: 10208

Advertisements

By the way, if anyone doesn't think Philadelphia and Detroit have plenty of neighborhoods with big homes and large, leafy lots, let me recommend touring around areas like Chestnut Hill or Indian Village.

They easily coexisted with populations of 2,000,000, in cities that are directly comparable to Atlanta in area.

Last edited by arjay57; 12-12-2014 at 12:41 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-12-2014, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,853,765 times
Reputation: 3504
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Talk about ridiculous stereotypes, you just did the same thing you railed against in your previous post.
And how did I do that? I stated my OPINION which is how I feel. I would not put my children in the Atlanta Schools...fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 12:46 PM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,398,199 times
Reputation: 3495
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
While I don't disagree with your main premise, those two shots of Cabbagetown remain largely intact today.
Most of the top pic is gone actually, but most of the bottom pic is still there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,560 posts, read 7,639,930 times
Reputation: 4361
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
By the way, if anyone doesn't think Philadelphia and Detroit have plenty of neighborhoods with big homes and large, leafy lots, let me recommend touring around areas like Chestnut Hill or Indian Village.

They easily coexisted with populations of 2,000,000, in cities that are directly comparable to Atlanta in area.
As another poster pointed out that only a very small part of the city is.

The majority of it is row houses.


Whereas the overwhelming majority of Atlanta is leafy neighborhoods and very few rowhouses.

That is why that argument does not match Atlanta very well and Philly is a denser city.


I'm sorry Arjay... but this is the equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,484 posts, read 1,605,990 times
Reputation: 1503
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
We also need to be sure we don't eradicate elbow room. That's one of the hallmarks that makes the ATL what it is.
Bye bye, "elbow room" aka waste of precious space in an urban place! Upzoning is on the way...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 01:07 PM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,397,177 times
Reputation: 3063
I believe your first statement is an over generalization. Reason for my saying this is Forsyth County - a suburb - just passed a bond referendum in November. The bond referendum raises the typical homeowners' property tax, ~$150-$200 per year. The purpose is to combine with state and federal funds to:

1. Add a lane north bound and south bound on GA 400, from McFarland to Bald Ridge Marina exit.
2. Widen GA Highway 9 to four lanes, plus turn lanes, from Fulton County Line to Bethelview Rd (Exit 13 of GA 400)
3. Extend Ronald Reagan from Majors Rd to McGinnis Ferry
4. All of this to be completed by ~2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Don't think the continued sprawl they are predicting will be sustainable. Suburbanites don't want to pay for the new and wider highways that would be needed to sustain that population growth.

They are predicting slow / negative growth for my intown neighborhood just south of I-20. And there is enough construction going on that I think we have probably already gone past their 2040 growth prediction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 01:50 PM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,398,199 times
Reputation: 3495
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
The key is change in population. Those neighborhoods aren't bad examples. I actually think Virginia Highland is a good example. It is the densest single family home (mostly;not all) neighborhood in the city that is still leafy. It is 8,000 people per square mile and that is with some retail uses taking up space. However, that is unlikely to change much for that neighborhood.

If all of 1950s sized Atlanta was Virginia Highland, which won't happen, then 1950s sized Atlanta would be limited to 295,000 people. And those are the smallest single family lots in the city, at least that spread out over a whole square mile. There are nooks of smaller in other spots. That is ignoring the many square miles for non-residential uses. You really need more intense land uses or more things in between (ie. Philidelphia/DC/Baltimore style row houses)

The issue I see is in the existing neighborhoods there is no method or room for changes to lot sizes on a large scale and there is resistance against it when it comes up.


I would actually argue that Atlanta's new development is making way for yuppies younger short-term families better than more long-term families that might require a full size row house over a condo. Now to be fair... I think Atlanta needs this. It has been missing from many neighborhoods in the past, but there are only a few isolate parts of town where we are building row houses and they are mostly to act as a transition to larger development.

The change is mostly limited to older commercial and industrial properties, the downtown/midtown core, parts of Lindbergh, the buckhead village, the Buckhead CBD, and the empty lots in a few Southern neighborhoods but mostly in the neighborhoods west of the core. Most of these popular places are wrapped with single family home neighborhoods that won't accept much change within their neighborhood...

So we have a great deal of land currently not open to change and most change is focused on key highly visible lots that use to be older commercial and industrial districts.

I don't think anyone is debating the other parts aren't changing, but merely there are limits to changes to those properties only.

This was a debate I had with Arjay over Peachtree Park in the past. That neighborhood, internally, is not going to change in density outside more kids inside the existing houses. This is even as the northern part of the neighborhood is just a couple blocks wide and is wedged between the urbanizing potential of the village and the buckhead CBD. It is a major discontinuity for urban growth in the area, but no one ever wants to change it.

Atlanta also had multi-family in the 1950s, mostly in the 4 corners around immediately downtown. It was common there were wooden dwellings 2-4 stories and they were individual flats. These were typically single buildings with no side yards. The city also had public housing. The various neighborhoods that use to be balled ____ bottoms were typically poorer and not necessarily single family homes with yards and had many du/tri-plexes with little to no yards. Most of these were built over starting in the 30s and into the 70s and commonly with multi-family public housing when they were.[
Single family neighborhoods isn't the issue, Most American major cities are again from New Orleans to Cleveland are single family homes, Even Chicago and Detroit is keyword dominated by single family homes.... Very few American cities are dominated by Multi units......... the issue vacancies and gaps.

Alot of the Old Fourth Ward, Grant Park, Cabbagetown, Reynoldstown, Summerhill, Pittsburgh, Mechanicsville, Bankhead, Vine City, English Avenue and etc have been razed. These neighborhoods lots are similar or smaller than Virginia-Highland. Virginia-Highland density is over those neighborhoods because Virginia-Highland has less empty lots and low vacancy.


But even so again Atlanta could gain 100,000 of people with out even touching leafy neighborhoods. I can't stress enough about Brownfield areas, Atlanta has enough to make dozens of new neighborhoods. This is part of the motivation be hide the Beltline. Then Downtown, Midtown, and West Midtown has a significant amount of open areas for development. I just repeated partly what you said the red the difference is your making it seem what we just said is a little area.

Most major cities have a mix that's your mix, lower vacancies and gaps in single family neigbhorhoods, and redevelop the significant amount brownfield space for multi units. Not try to complain about wanting to change up single family neighborhood and put multi family units and etc... If you did that in New Orleans, Cleveland, Chicago and etc those neighborhood leaders would complain about too, Also I hope you understand neighborhoods leaders are involved with the Beltline,

technically speaking this is between neighborhoods... Sub area 2

http://beltlineorg.wpengine.netdna-c...a-02-Chart.jpg
Sub area 1 &2



Also at this point we shouldn't be talking about limits at all, Atlanta has too much available land. Land to redevelop, empty plots, and vacancies to fill. I doubt even by 2050 there would be land availability issues in the core.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta & Savannah, GA - Corpus Christi, TX
4,464 posts, read 7,259,938 times
Reputation: 2207
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
I believe your first statement is an over generalization. Reason for my saying this is Forsyth County - a suburb - just passed a bond referendum in November. The bond referendum raises the typical homeowners' property tax, ~$150-$200 per year. The purpose is to combine with state and federal funds to:

3. Extend Ronald Reagan from Majors Rd to McGinnis Ferry
4. All of this to be completed by ~2019
Am I missing something? Ronald Reagan Parkway is entirely within Gwinnett County... and you're saying Forsyth passed a bond referendum...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 02:07 PM
 
512 posts, read 399,504 times
Reputation: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
By the way, if anyone doesn't think Philadelphia and Detroit have plenty of neighborhoods with big homes and large, leafy lots, let me recommend touring around areas like Chestnut Hill or Indian Village.

They easily coexisted with populations of 2,000,000, in cities that are directly comparable to Atlanta in area.
I grew up in one of those leafy Philadelphia neighborhoods (Mt. Airy) within walking distance of Chestnut Hill. As I've already pointed out they are the exception, not the rule in the Philly. Single-family detached housing is far less common in Philly than in Atlanta. Moreover, even Chestnut Hill is full of row houses. Most of the housing stock east of Germantown Avenue (it roughly divides the neighborhood in half) are row houses, twins and apartments. The adjoining census tract in Chestnut Hill to the one where the house on Laughlin Lane that you've linked is located has a population density of 12k ppsm.

This building is three blocks from the house on Laughlin Lane (which BTW is located less than one block from the entrance to the Emergency Department of Chestnut Hill Hospital) https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0740...B5y2betG6w!2e0

These houses are an easy walk down Germantown Avenue from the house you linked https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0773...vxTgqWrnaQ!2e0

These are nearby as well https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0728...DTCDvtkSTw!2e0

There'd have to be a major re-write of Atlanta zoning code for it to look like Philadelphia. There isn't one neighborhood in Philly that is as dominated by single-family detached housing as even the relatively dense by Atlanta standards Virginia-Highland. the two cities were developed at different times which is why the land uses in the two cities are so different.

I also don't think Atlanta is going to follow the LA model either. We don't have the same physical barriers to development that LA does. That doesn't mean Atlanta isn't becoming or can't become more densely populated. In the end the quality of development, not density for the sake of density, is what matters anyway.

Last edited by BR Valentine; 12-12-2014 at 02:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,410 posts, read 3,809,347 times
Reputation: 2968
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingImport View Post
Am I missing something? Ronald Reagan Parkway is entirely within Gwinnett County... and you're saying Forsyth passed a bond referendum...
There's one in Forsyth County as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:17 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top