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Old 12-14-2014, 12:28 PM
 
Location: atlanta
3,962 posts, read 4,556,415 times
Reputation: 3211

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the problem is that you guys are viewing this from a baby boomer perspective. we're not speaking the same language. when someone says "apartment", you automatically think of this:



places that are cheap housing for transitory people, not permanent homes. a "stepping stone" to a house. contributes to traffic because, like a house, you can only get there via car. the only people that live here do so because they have to.

if you think we're excited about this, i can see why you think we're nuts.

when you say apartment to a millenial, we think of this:



or for the well-off among us, this:



this is not somewhere we live while we get our acts together. this is a home for us. we want to raise our kids here.

i know you think we are crazy, but really think about it. you guys, baby boomers, put yourselves into serious debt because you wanted to buy a whole house. you wanted a place that you would spend half your life trying to keep repaired and cleaned, where you had to watch out for people trying to break in, where you are sometimes miles from basic necessities, so you have to put down big bucks for a car to get you from one place to another, including work.

now think of when you go on vacation and you stay in a hotel room. things are simple. you don't have to worry about maintenance or cleaning up a huge house. you have a nice little secure space with a view, you can walk out of your hotel room and go and have fun without having to ever get in your car. you can walk to restaurants, stores, life is carefree.

our question is, why in the hell would you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to make your life way more complicated and stressful than it needs to be? you guys have spent tons and tons of money on "stuff" instead of living your lives. we think you are absolutely nuts.

why not just live in a place that has just the right amount of space to raise your kids, where you can walk them to school, walk to work, and walk to the grocery store? to us, apartments are not places where you live because you're too messed up to own a house. apartments are where we would like to live!

you guys are speaking an entirely different language when you talk about apartments. why are we excited about apartments? because we hate driving. we hate long commute times. we hate having a huge place that costs tons of money to maintain, we hate huge water and electric bills.

what we like is being able to live without worrying about someone breaking into our homes. we like living our lives rather than hassling with all of our "stuff". with all the new intown apartments being built, this means that there is a place for us in atlanta where we will be happy. why don't you guys get that?
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:42 PM
 
994 posts, read 1,108,923 times
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You want to live in an apartment for 20+ years, raising your kids there? Spending all that rent money and gaining no equity in the process?

Yeah, I think that's pretty crazy. Do you even have kids?

The only difference between the first picture and the other two are location and styling.

By the way, I am not a Boomer.

I'm at the tail-end of X with a husband and two kids.

Many Millennials are already well into their 30s, living in houses and having kids, contrary to the spin proliferating in pop culture.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:49 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
2,587 posts, read 1,497,672 times
Reputation: 3379
Quote:
Originally Posted by hautemomma View Post
You want to live in an apartment for 20+ years, raising your kids there? Spending all that rent money and gaining no equity in the process?

Yeah, I think that's pretty crazy. Do you even have kids?

The only difference between the first picture and the other two are location and styling.

By the way, I am not a Boomer.

I'm at the tail-end of X with a husband and two kids.

Many Millennials are already well into their 30s, living in houses and having kids, contrary to the spin proliferating in pop culture.
People successfully raise children in apartments in cities throughout the world. Of course, some millenials are going to choose the suburban lifestyle just like generations before them, but it's a fact that this generation, much more than those previously, are eschewing the 'burbs for the cities. I don't have kids, but even if I did, I'd make it work intown. Many people are starting to do that and not just hightailing it to Gwinnett/Cobb/N. Fulton the minute they have a kid.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:54 PM
 
994 posts, read 1,108,923 times
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Until one has kids, anything said about how or where you'd raise them is purely conjecture.

Living in an apartment for decades is a stupid financial decision, lifestyle factors notwithstanding. Why not buy a condo then?

Millennials tend to be the broke generation-can't qualify for a mortgage, bad job market, extended adolescence, etc.

That could explain a lot.
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Old 12-14-2014, 02:07 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
2,587 posts, read 1,497,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hautemomma View Post
Until one has kids, anything said about how or where you'd raise them is purely conjecture.

Living in an apartment for decades is a stupid financial decision, lifestyle factors notwithstanding. Why not buy a condo then?

Millennials tend to be the broke generation-can't qualify for a mortgage, bad job market, extended adolescence, etc.

That could explain a lot.
Painting with a broad brush, don't you think? None of those apply to me or the dozens of my friends and colleagues who are millenials. Kind of like saying Generation X is nothing but nihilistic, flannel-wearing shoegazers.

I disagree that it's conjecture. Can you not plan ahead and figure out how kids are going to fit into your life?
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Old 12-14-2014, 02:13 PM
 
994 posts, read 1,108,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
Painting with a broad brush, don't you think? None of those apply to me or the dozens of my friends and colleagues who are millenials. Kind of like saying Generation X is nothing but nihilistic, flannel-wearing shoegazers.

I disagree that it's conjecture. Can you not plan ahead and figure out how kids are going to fit into your life?
Not really, until you have them. Being responsible for the life and well-being of another human has a funny way of changing plans and priorities.

I'm not trying to be mean RE: the comments about Millennials. Research shows what kind of economy they have inherited and what kind of financial shape they are in as a collective or aggregate.
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Old 12-14-2014, 02:41 PM
 
28,118 posts, read 24,646,505 times
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When I was young it was very common to live in an apartment intown.

That may not have changed.
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Old 12-14-2014, 03:16 PM
 
994 posts, read 1,108,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
When I was young it was very common to live in an apartment intown.

That may not have changed.
That's been common for many people across generations. Young people with no obligations other than themselves, i.e. not caring for children, older relatives, etc., commonly live in apartments.

One of the biggest caveats, I think, is not so much age as it is having a child or children. It also has something to do with the stage of development the kids are in - school age vs. not school age. The exodus to communities with well-ranked public schools systems is not mythical.

Some older people ("Boomers") are supposedly heading to cities because they don't want the maintenance of upkeep of the homes they moved into 20-30+ years ago to raise their kids. In fact, that's part of the reason there is such a boom of "senior living" and "active adult" communities, in cities and suburbs alike. Some of them want more of a maintenance-free lifestyle, and they have the $3K+ per month to spend on this amenity-rich, apartment-style way of life.

As I've said before, I like the idea of city living. I frequent the COA often, but I also enjoy and appreciate the qualities of many of the surrounding areas that have developed their own unique charm and personality (I think some of the "urban evangelists," some of whom have proudly proclaimed they never leave ITP, are really missing out on some cool, charming areas and nice natural amenities).

Where I live in the suburbs, I can get all that I need and want without ever leaving, if I chose that type of insular existence. But I enjoy exploring the many communities that comprise the Metro Atlanta area and can understand the different lifestyle, financial and other factors that make people vote with their feet - and dollars - in either direction.
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:10 PM
 
5,363 posts, read 4,889,007 times
Reputation: 3531
Quote:
Originally Posted by hautemomma View Post
Why is cramming more people into less space such a noble goal? Perhaps I do not understand the apparently strong and negative reaction to most of the growth continuing in the suburbs and counties besides Fulton.

Why are people so excited about more apartments being built?
It's not that cramming more people into less space is being pushed as a noble goal. It's that city dwellers are excited that a rising number of young professionals want to move into Intown and inner city areas to live and raise families after decades of population loss and decline from white flight to the suburbs.

Intowners and ITPers are understandably very excited about the continuing change in societal attitudes that has made urban living more attractive and even popular after several years and decades of urban lifestyles being shunned for suburban living.

Intowners are not necessarily so excited about more apartments being built as much as they may be excited that abandoned and underused urban spaces are being converted into prime living space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hautemomma View Post
Apartment-dwellers (save for places like NYC and San Fran, perhaps) are intrinsically more of a transitory population. They are not paying property taxes; they are not "vested" into the community where the apartment building is constructed; and they may generally lack the financial means to really contribute to the economics of the city.

I think all this apartment-building (not only here, but elsewhere -- this is a national trend right now) is going become a regretful thing some years down the line. The reality (or one of them) is that all these apartments are being built in part because it's too hard for many people to qualify for mortgages now.
You make an excellent point about more apartments being built in large part because many people may not qualify for mortgages.

But it should be noted that while apartment dwellers may not directly have property tax bills sent to them individually, apartment dwellers do pay property taxes when they pay their rents to the owners of the apartment properties who use part of those rental revenues to pay commercial property taxes to local governments....Which is why local governments love to permit the construction of apartment complexes....Because local governments can collect more in property tax revenue from a single large multi-family residential development (which are often classified as commercial properties for property tax collection purposes) then they can from an individual single-family development.

The increased property tax revenue collections from apartment complexes is the reason why local governments (like the City of Atlanta, DeKalb County, Clayton County, City of Smyrna, City of Marietta, Cobb County, Fulton County and Gwinnett County) have seemingly gone berserk in permitting the seemingly endless construction of apartment complexes from the 1970's through today.

It should also be noted that while apartment dwellers may not necessarily contribute to the economics of a community on the higher income end of the financial equation, apartment dwellers do contribute heavily to the sales tax base of a community when they shop at retail establishments which pass along sales tax payments to local governments.

Apartment dwellers also again contribute to the property tax base of a community when they shop at retail establishments which contribute to the commercial property tax base of a community.

(...Apartment dwellers shop at retail establishments which either make lease payments to commercial property owners who pay property taxes to local governments or make direct property tax payments to local governments with the retail revenue collected from apartment dwellers and other consumers.)

Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 12-14-2014 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,154 posts, read 16,152,860 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Where I live in the suburbs, I can get all that I need and want without ever leaving, if I chose that type of insular existence.
Can accomplish all of these without jumping in a car? That is the allure to a lot of us intowners, being able to run errands or visit restaurants without getting in a car. We can walk, ride a bike, or take transit. We like having options.
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