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Old 12-18-2014, 08:34 AM
 
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It would be more accurate to use statistics on the subject of the correlation between crime and transit from other cities that have very recently expanded. However, even that won't accurately predict what will happen ten years or so from now when Alpharetta gets Marta rail.

Although I seriously doubt the apartments at Avalon are renting to violent criminals. I think we can assume the same for Buckhead Atlanta, the Flats at Ponce City Market and the new luxury apartments being built in places like Old Roswell.

To end this debate, I will state that correlation does not equal causation.







Checkmate.

Last edited by joey86; 12-18-2014 at 09:37 AM.. Reason: Game over.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,733,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
It would be more accurate to use statistics on the subject of the correlation between crime and transit from other cities that have very recently expanded. However, even that won't accurately predict what will happen ten years or so from now when Alpharetta gets Marta rail.

Although I seriously doubt the apartments at Avalon are renting to violent criminals. I think we can assume the same for Buckhead Atlanta, the Flats at Ponce City Market and the new luxury apartments being built in places like Old Roswell.

To end this debate, I will state that correlation does not equal causation.







Checkmate.
I disagree on one point: The presence of Internet Explorer has always driven me to lustful dreams of murder.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,301 posts, read 1,422,570 times
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Originally Posted by AtlantaComment View Post
yes this is precisely why all the large Silicon Valley co's are able to rely on Muni/Bart to Caltrain to get their employees to work. Oh wait, instead they setup an entire parallel private bus system because the current system is so bad.
Those individuals companies did the same thing many companies have done in other major metropolitan areas like DC and even Chicago. The set up the private service as a supplement for their employees. However, BART is a regional commuter subway, Muni is frequent-headway light rail service for SF, and Caltrain is a statewide system. FYI, the VTA is the public transit service that directly serves the "Silicon Valley" in San Jose and Santa Clara County, not those aforementioned transit systems. Those companies doing that does not signify it being bad rather they want to hyper-local service from "door-to-door" which isn't possible in a geographically large region like the Bay Area, nor it possible in Metro Atlanta.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
You are taking a snapshot of it....take a look at just the last 5 years....I don't think everyone suddenly stopped committing crime. Last time I checked, violent assaults were a pretty bad thing too or, are they okay in your book?
There have been 3 homicides since FY 2011 (July 2010):
MARTA > MARTA Police > The Departments

I didn't say that violent assaults weren't bad (but I don't know if from 48 to 63 a year is an astounding number), I just didn't see how lumping together violent assaults and murders told us much, since murders are pretty rare. It's like saying there are a lot of rich people and rodeo clowns in Ansley Park. There are a lot of the first and probably not many, if any, of the latter.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
I'm sure they are all saints as you suggest in the 4th ward....
Point me to where I suggested that.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dkeating View Post
There have been 3 homicides since FY 2011 (July 2010):
MARTA > MARTA Police > The Departments
I think that averages out to at least a "-1" murder rate on MARTA consider they just caught a guy who had committed 4 murders elsewhere.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkeating View Post
There have been 3 homicides since FY 2011 (July 2010):
MARTA > MARTA Police > The Departments

I didn't say that violent assaults weren't bad (but I don't know if from 48 to 63 a year is an astounding number
That's very low considering about 422,000 trips are taken every day. One in several million assaulted and a murder rate as low as Alpharetta. That's why suggested that race is an issue earlier. There is no real danger with Marta, only a perceived one.
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Old 12-20-2014, 06:42 AM
bu2
 
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Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
Since a bunch of anecdotes about crime aboard MARTA have been tossed around, why not one about MARTA stopping it? Has anyone mentioned that Aeman Lovel Presley, the alleged murderer of four people, was captured because he used MARTA? He tried to evade the fare but the MARTA cops were all over him.
I did see a study where when police let petty stuff go by, the big stuff followed. If you allow graffiti and petty crime, things will start getting worse.
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Old 12-20-2014, 06:45 AM
bu2
 
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Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
That's very low considering about 422,000 trips are taken every day. One in several million assaulted and a murder rate as low as Alpharetta. That's why suggested that race is an issue earlier. There is no real danger with Marta, only a perceived one.
You're confusing different issues. One is safety while riding. Another is crime (property or personal) if you are near a stop. A third is being part of a transit system connecting you to the inner city (i.e. if Cobb joined MARTA).
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Old 12-20-2014, 07:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
You're confusing different issues. One is safety while riding. Another is crime (property or personal) if you are near a stop. A third is being part of a transit system connecting you to the inner city (i.e. if Cobb joined MARTA).
1. The system is very safe while riding as are the stations. The statistics on this subject are likely more indicative of the effects that transit has on crime than the other points. Marta is safe as is and is seeing a continued reduction in crime rates.

2. Crime near a stop can't necessarily be blamed on transit. Poorer areas tend to be more likely to have transit, since they needed it more when it was implemented. Transit did not make them poor. Poorer areas in Atlanta also tend to have more weave shops. Correlation does not equal causality.

Areas in Atlanta that have Marta rail were going downhill before Marta. Crack cocaine is more relevant than Marta. White flight and suburbanization deserves the blame more than Marta, which is sort of ironic considering suburbanites seem to be the ones blaming Marta. There's more to it than transit.

3. We have no way of knowing that the rise in crime which happened to correlate with Marta implementation fourty years ago will occur again. Fourty years ago the areas where Marta was implemented tended to be going downhill and were largely being abandoned by more financially stable people. Today we are likely to see a rise in property values and an increase in investment when rail expands.

Sweet Auburn, West End and the Old Fourth Ward have already seen investment in correlation with the prospect of transit that isn't even open. Crime rates have gone down and will likely continue to go down in those areas. If Vine City were to get a streetcar I'm almost certain crime would drop. In 2014 it would be much easier to argue that new transit will lead to a decrease in crime.
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