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Old 12-18-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,630 posts, read 8,730,322 times
Reputation: 5144

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USING MARTA

parking doravilleParking Information

MARTA offers over 24,000 FREE parking spaces at many of our stations. Daily parking (less than 24 hours) is available for free at 23 MARTA stations. Long-term parking is available at Brookhaven, Dunwoody, Kensington, Lenox and Sandy Springs Stations for $5/day, or at College Park, Doraville, Lindbergh and North Springs stations for $8/day. MARTA also offers Park & Ride locations at Windward Parkway, Mansell Road, Barge Road and South Fulton.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:26 PM
 
221 posts, read 172,417 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
For pete's sake! NO ONE SUBSIDIZES PARKING! The city doesn't pay a company to build a parking deck for its workers, the city doesn't provide tax breaks for providing a parking deck. The users DO pay the full cost of the parking. I doubt most office complexes would willingly add a parking deck or lot if they could avoid it.
Of course the government doesn't specifically subsidize parking directly but if a government gives a tax break or subsidy for a development a portion of the subsidy allows for parking that may or may not have been built or budgeted otherwise.

Basic math. If you have $100 to build something and somebody gives you another $100 you now have $200 to spend.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,630 posts, read 8,730,322 times
Reputation: 5144
Quote:
Originally Posted by travbo View Post
Of course the government doesn't specifically subsidize parking directly but if a government gives a tax break or subsidy for a development a portion of the subsidy allows for parking that may or may not have been built or budgeted otherwise.

Basic math. If you have $100 to build something and somebody gives you another $100 you now have $200 to spend.
See my post above. MARTA subsidizes 24k of free parking...
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:46 PM
 
10,000 posts, read 6,998,255 times
Reputation: 3068
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
For pete's sake! NO ONE SUBSIDIZES PARKING! The city doesn't pay a company to build a parking deck for its workers, the city doesn't provide tax breaks for providing a parking deck. The users DO pay the full cost of the parking. I doubt most office complexes would willingly add a parking deck or lot if they could avoid it.
Matt, We have been over this in other threads. Considering most parking is free, I am not sure how you think parking is unsubsidized. Surely you agree the value of the land and parking lot maintenance is higher that $0.

But I think you and I have different definitions of subsidies. I consider that governments provide free parking a subsidy. I also consider laws that require businesses and home owners to build parking that they do not want a subsidy for parking too.

Regardless of what you call it, the questions these pose is the following: Should tax dollars be taken for everyone to buy and maintain free parking spaces that benefit drivers? If I want to build a business that only caters to customers that walk or bike, should I be required to build parking spaces? Or if I don't own a car should I be required to build parking spaces at my house?

My answer is "no" but currently all three examples are the norm.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,630 posts, read 8,730,322 times
Reputation: 5144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Matt, We have been over this in other threads. Considering most parking is free, I am not sure how you think parking is unsubsidized. Surely you agree the value of the land and parking lot maintenance is higher that $0.

But I think you and I have different definitions of subsidies. I consider that governments provide free parking a subsidy. I also consider laws that require businesses and home owners to build parking that they do not want a subsidy for parking too.

Regardless of what you call it, the questions these pose is the following: Should tax dollars be taken for everyone to buy and maintain free parking spaces that benefit drivers? If I want to build a business that only caters to customers that walk or bike, should I be required to build parking spaces? Or if I don't own a car should I be required to build parking spaces at my house?

My answer is "no" but currently all three examples are the norm.
I do believe that some minimum parking should be required of business. For example, my sister is blind and has very restricted mobility. Public transit is simply not an option for her. For me to take her to any business - restaurant, clothing store, the dentist, etc. she must ride in a car. I think the same thing can be said for accommodating seniors who may have mobility issues and cannot walk the several blocks that public transit may require. So, yes, we should require some parking to accommodate those that are not as physically fortunate as the healthier and younger folks.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:44 PM
 
10,000 posts, read 6,998,255 times
Reputation: 3068
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
I do believe that some minimum parking should be required of business. For example, my sister is blind and has very restricted mobility. Public transit is simply not an option for her. For me to take her to any business - restaurant, clothing store, the dentist, etc. she must ride in a car. I think the same thing can be said for accommodating seniors who may have mobility issues and cannot walk the several blocks that public transit may require. So, yes, we should require some parking to accommodate those that are not as physically fortunate as the healthier and younger folks.
Very poor example. Your sister should not be driving or in need parking. However MARTA Mobility would be a perfect solution for her (which does not require parking).

Also note, removing the parking minimum does not ban all parking. It just means you go to a private lot that is accessible to multiple businesses.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,630 posts, read 8,730,322 times
Reputation: 5144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Very poor example. Your sister should not be driving or in need parking. However MARTA Mobility would be a perfect solution for her (which does not require parking).

Also note, removing the parking minimum does not ban all parking. It just means you go to a private lot that is accessible to multiple businesses.
She's not driving. She's blind.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,935 posts, read 3,750,903 times
Reputation: 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
USING MARTA

parking doravilleParking Information

MARTA offers over 24,000 FREE parking spaces at many of our stations. Daily parking (less than 24 hours) is available for free at 23 MARTA stations. Long-term parking is available at Brookhaven, Dunwoody, Kensington, Lenox and Sandy Springs Stations for $5/day, or at College Park, Doraville, Lindbergh and North Springs stations for $8/day. MARTA also offers Park & Ride locations at Windward Parkway, Mansell Road, Barge Road and South Fulton.
We're not talking about a park and ride as part of an integrated transportation system, the topic is parking at the endpoint of the trip, not the middle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Matt, We have been over this in other threads. Considering most parking is free, I am not sure how you think parking is unsubsidized. Surely you agree the value of the land and parking lot maintenance is higher that $0.
And apparently you've still never gone and looked up the definition of subsidy. Here, I'll be nice this time and link you directly to it, if you still fail to look at it, then that says a lot about you: Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Quote:
But I think you and I have different definitions of subsidies. I consider that governments provide free parking a subsidy.
Ok, so maybe you did glance at it.
Quote:
I also consider laws that require businesses and home owners to build parking that they do not want a subsidy for parking too.
But then went and made up your own definition to suit you. A LEGAL REQUIREMENT IS NOT INHERENTLY A SUBSIDY! PERIOD!
Quote:
Regardless of what you call it, the questions these pose is the following: Should tax dollars be taken for everyone to buy and maintain free parking spaces that benefit drivers?
It depends on the area and the benefit. In a place like Conyers where any kind of transit would be outrageously expensive compared to the benefit, while still being fairly spread out, then sure because it's a net benefit to the community. In a place like Atlanta the answer is still "it depends."
Quote:
If I want to build a business that only caters to customers that walk or bike, should I be required to build parking spaces? Or if I don't own a car should I be required to build parking spaces at my house?

My answer is "no" but currently all three examples are the norm.
The answer should be "it depends" leaning strongly toward yes, especially in the current climate. What happens if no one builds parking spaces? Will people just stop going to the one grocery store in an area? No, they'll clog up the neighborhood looking for parking at best, and at worst, residents and businesses will leave due to the hassle. As to your house, the answer is still strongly leaning towards yes, just because you don't own a car, doesn't mean the next person that buys a house won't either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Very poor example. Your sister should not be driving or in need parking. However MARTA Mobility would be a perfect solution for her (which does not require parking).
Wow, way to strike at someone, make assumptions about their life, and try and force them into your idea of their lifestyle. I'm speechless. You're better than that.
Quote:
Also note, removing the parking minimum does not ban all parking. It just means you go to a private lot that is accessible to multiple businesses.
So what you actually want then is a parking maximum because very few places are trying to underbuild the parking minimum so what does that tell us? Oh yes, it tells us that that "free market" you want to control everything, is actually working here.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:01 PM
bu2
 
9,077 posts, read 5,780,509 times
Reputation: 3598
Quote:
Originally Posted by travbo View Post
Of course the government doesn't specifically subsidize parking directly but if a government gives a tax break or subsidy for a development a portion of the subsidy allows for parking that may or may not have been built or budgeted otherwise.

Basic math. If you have $100 to build something and somebody gives you another $100 you now have $200 to spend.

I'm talking about employers subsidizing parking. In major office complexes in places like Buckhead, the employer pays as part of its rent a certain amount to guarantee parking spaces. And they usually don't charge the employee. So the employer directly pays the landlord for parking spaces. They subsidize the employees. Even in downtown areas, some employers give employees "free" parking, but the employer is paying for it. If every employee directly paid for parking, more people would use mass transit.

I don't remember the exact numbers from about 10 years ago, so I'm probably not exact, but it gives you the general range- in downtown Houston where almost no employers subsidized parking and most subsidized transit passes., transit usage was 27%. In the Texas Medical Center, about 4 miles south of downtown, where parking was subsidized but not fully and most subsidized transit passes, usage was about 12%. In contrast, in Houston's Uptown Galleria area about 8 miles west of downtown (the equivalent of Buckhead), where very few employees paid for parking and only some employers subsidized transit passes, transit usage was around 5%. Now downtown had the best service, so you would expect some higher level, but TMC and the Galleria area's main difference was the cost of parking.

I know as a family, we almost never take MARTA downtown for events anymore. At $2.50 per person + $.50 for the card, it costs more than parking. When the cost was lower, it made more sense. It took a little longer, but was easier and cost less.

If you have to pay $100 a month for parking, it starts to make mass transit look like a better financial decision.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:03 PM
bu2
 
9,077 posts, read 5,780,509 times
Reputation: 3598
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
See my post above. MARTA subsidizes 24k of free parking...
I want MARTA to subsidize parking. I don't want employers to.
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