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Old 01-01-2015, 06:26 PM
 
6,180 posts, read 5,511,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight View Post
@B2R. All the points you make about Ft. Stewart's contribution are nonetheless of the residual, "percolating up and trickling down" variety. One simply cannot list Ft. Stewart as a key component of Savannah's economy (like the Port of Savannah, the 4 local universities, the medical centers, and tourism). Ft. Stewart is too far away for that. What I really take issue with is your pat expression "Ft. Stewart at Savannah". That is totally off the wall, and it most certainly is not. That kind of lingo is fine for Columbus or Warner Robins or Hinesville, but Ft. Stewart doesn't directly contribute to Savannah's economy the way military bases contribute to GA's other 2nd-tier cities. Shopping expeditions and old sergeants retiring in Savannah? Quite secondary effects for Savannah, which is not a military town in the sense that some other southern cities its size are military towns, or dependent on military families. Sorry, no dice.
Well, of course Savannah is not a military town in the much more strict sense of military towns like Columbus or Warner Robins, etc....But Fort Stewart is still an important factor in Savannah's regional economy, despite not being the dominant factor in Savannah's metropolitan economy.

The presence of Fort Stewart in Savannah's CSA helps Savannah's regional economy in addition to the activity that would already be generated from the seaport, the universities, the medical centers and the tourism industry.

Fort Stewart may not be within or immediately close to Savannah, but Fort Stewart still drives a not-insignificant amount of economic activity and population growth in the Savannah area.

Fort Stewart is significant enough to the economy of the Savannah area that it is listed by the Savannah Chamber of Commerce as one of the major employers in the Savannah MSA because of the number of civilian employees from the Savannah area that commute to work on the Fort Stewart military base.

Quote:
Major Employers...

Education/Government/Public Service...
Corporation/Organization...Service/Product...Employees; Ft. Stewart/Hunter Army Airfield...Civilian personnel on bases...1,000-4,999
Savannah Chamber

If the Savannah Chamber of Commerce thinks that Fort Stewart is a major cog in Savannah's metropolitan economy because of the number of Savannah MSA civilian residents that commute to and from work there, then there's no denying that Fort Stewart plays an important role in the health of the Savannah area economy.
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Outer Boroughs, NYC
1,650 posts, read 1,293,645 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
Fort Stewart is significant enough to the economy of the Savannah area that it is listed by the Savannah Chamber of Commerce as one of the major employers in the Savannah MSA because of the number of civilian employees from the Savannah area that commute to work on the Fort Stewart military base.
You do realize what Chambers of Commerce are: shameless boosters for the local business community. They are not exactly fonts of wisdom for the ages, nor are they reliable sources for authentic statistics -- we have a Census Bureau for that. At least, if you want unbiased stats, free of hype, you don't trot off to the Chamber of Commerce. Plus, southern C of Cs are notorious for pro-business hyperbole in their communities, where they regularly inflate population figures ("a region of more than 800,000!") and often attempt to redefine a city's metro area by enlarging it (even across three state borders) in ways the poor Census Bureau never thought of. And C of Cs have a boneheaded habit of naming urban regions using some kind of obtuse businesspeak (e.g., "the Coastal Empire", "Greater Savannah-Hilton Head", "the Historic Coast" and such). They also have decided that thousands -- yes, thousands! -- of civil employees named Herb and Marie commute from "Greater Savannah-Hilton Head" to work in Ft. Stewart. If that were really the case, I think the Census Bureau would have got wind of said commuting patterns and put little ole' Hinesville and Savannah into the same MSA. They have not.

The impact of Ft. Stewart is not "significant" compared to other 2nd-tier cities and their military bases, and I'd say Ft. Stewart's economic impact on Savannah is comparatively limited. Savannah's C of C boys (and a few girls) are great at hyping the local "industries", including tourism -- I suppose it's their job to attract more business and industry to the area, so claiming that a large federal facility is part and parcel of Savannah's economy is an attractive come-on if you're thinking of opening a new poodle-grooming parlor or used-car dealership. Fine by me, but hype is still hype. The military is just not key to Savannah's MSA economy. And so, I repeat: "Ft. Stewart at Savannah" is not the best expression for you to use.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 13,248,894 times
Reputation: 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight View Post
You do realize what Chambers of Commerce are: shameless boosters for the local business community. They are not exactly fonts of wisdom for the ages, nor are they reliable sources for authentic statistics -- we have a Census Bureau for that. At least, if you want unbiased stats, free of hype, you don't trot off to the Chamber of Commerce. Plus, southern C of Cs are notorious for pro-business hyperbole in their communities, where they regularly inflate population figures ("a region of more than 800,000!") and often attempt to redefine a city's metro area by enlarging it (even across three state borders) in ways the poor Census Bureau never thought of. And C of Cs have a boneheaded habit of naming urban regions using some kind of obtuse businesspeak (e.g., "the Coastal Empire", "Greater Savannah-Hilton Head", "the Historic Coast" and such). They also have decided that thousands -- yes, thousands! -- of civil employees named Herb and Marie commute from "Greater Savannah-Hilton Head" to work in Ft. Stewart. If that were really the case, I think the Census Bureau would have got wind of said commuting patterns and put little ole' Hinesville and Savannah into the same MSA. They have not.

The impact of Ft. Stewart is not "significant" compared to other 2nd-tier cities and their military bases, and I'd say Ft. Stewart's economic impact on Savannah is comparatively limited. Savannah's C of C boys (and a few girls) are great at hyping the local "industries", including tourism -- I suppose it's their job to attract more business and industry to the area, so claiming that a large federal facility is part and parcel of Savannah's economy is an attractive come-on if you're thinking of opening a new poodle-grooming parlor or used-car dealership. Fine by me, but hype is still hype. The military is just not key to Savannah's MSA economy. And so, I repeat: "Ft. Stewart at Savannah" is not the best expression for you to use.

Where Fort Stewart/HAAF Soldiers & Civilians Live
39.96% Liberty County
32.79% Chatham County
10.86% On Post
5.38% Bryan County
2.58% Long County
1.67% Tattnall County
<1% Wayne County
<1% Effingham County
<1% Bulloch County
<1% Evans County
<1% McIntosh County
<1% Glynn County
5.93% Other
http:// https://www.google.com/url?s...0vBVMt8qSBcvDg

"Savannah Alderman Tony Thomas said there is no question that the two bases have had a great economic impact on the city".
“Any loss would be felt by our community,” he said.

So how it it that so many personnel live in Chatham County which is essentially Savannah?
"Josh Fenn, executive director of the Development Authority of Bryan County, credited Fort Stewart with much of Bryan’s 39 percent growth since 2000. He said 13 percent of the population is directly affected by the base, which accounts for $63.4 million in salaries."
Bryan county is in Savannah MSA.
You mentioned Warner Robins but I can tell you that if Warner Robins were to shut down Warner Robins would die but Macon would be hurting almost as much.
Have you been to Savnnah on any given weekend?Even during the week you see military people everywhere in and out of uniform.I don't get what you are talking about.

I am prior military and I can tell you that military towns are not insular to the immediate area.They affect the whole region.Ft.Stewart is a huge base that sits in more than one. County.
When I had to go for an assignment many years ago,I had to stay in lodging at Hunter AAF and drive to Hinesville and sometimes you have to stay in hotels contracted out in Savannah.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:52 PM
 
6,180 posts, read 5,511,116 times
Reputation: 4197
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight View Post
You do realize what Chambers of Commerce are: shameless boosters for the local business community. They are not exactly fonts of wisdom for the ages, nor are they reliable sources for authentic statistics -- we have a Census Bureau for that. At least, if you want unbiased stats, free of hype, you don't trot off to the Chamber of Commerce. Plus, southern C of Cs are notorious for pro-business hyperbole in their communities, where they regularly inflate population figures ("a region of more than 800,000!") and often attempt to redefine a city's metro area by enlarging it (even across three state borders) in ways the poor Census Bureau never thought of. And C of Cs have a boneheaded habit of naming urban regions using some kind of obtuse businesspeak (e.g., "the Coastal Empire", "Greater Savannah-Hilton Head", "the Historic Coast" and such). They also have decided that thousands -- yes, thousands! -- of civil employees named Herb and Marie commute from "Greater Savannah-Hilton Head" to work in Ft. Stewart. If that were really the case, I think the Census Bureau would have got wind of said commuting patterns and put little ole' Hinesville and Savannah into the same MSA. They have not.

The impact of Ft. Stewart is not "significant" compared to other 2nd-tier cities and their military bases, and I'd say Ft. Stewart's economic impact on Savannah is comparatively limited. Savannah's C of C boys (and a few girls) are great at hyping the local "industries", including tourism -- I suppose it's their job to attract more business and industry to the area, so claiming that a large federal facility is part and parcel of Savannah's economy is an attractive come-on if you're thinking of opening a new poodle-grooming parlor or used-car dealership. Fine by me, but hype is still hype. The military is just not key to Savannah's MSA economy. And so, I repeat: "Ft. Stewart at Savannah" is not the best expression for you to use.
Well, of course "the military is not the key to Savannah's economy", but what the link above to the list of Savannah area employers shows is that people who live in the Savannah MSA think that Fort Stewart is a significant enough of an economic factor to place it on a list of the area's top employers....Which makes sense because Fort Stewart is located within the Savannah CSA and is only about 23 miles outside of Chatham County.

Hinesville and Savannah may not be in the same MSA, but a strong enough of a commuting pattern and social and economic link exists between the two MSA's for them to be part of the same CSA.

There apparently are enough people moving back and forth between the Savannah and the Hinesville-Fort Stewart MSA's for them to both to be apart of the same CSA.

...Movement which includes many Savannah and Chatham County residents commuting to work at civilian jobs at Fort Stewart and commuting back and spending those paychecks at businesses in Savannah and Chatham County.

...Movement which also includes many Fort Stewart military and government personnel traveling to spend money at businesses in Savannah and Chatham County (...spending which includes use of the Savannah Airport and the Port of Savannah by the federal government as well as patronage of local Savannah area bars, restaurants, retail establishments and medical facilities by federal government and military personnel).

Fort Stewart may not be the dominant cog in the economy of the Savannah area, but the direct and indirect spending by the federal government still means that Fort Stewart plays an undeniably significant role in the economy of the Savannah area.
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Outer Boroughs, NYC
1,650 posts, read 1,293,645 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Where Fort Stewart/HAAF Soldiers & Civilians Live
39.96% Liberty County
32.79% Chatham County.
Sorry, those statistics just aren't credible -- and they're also skewed in significant ways (i.e., Hunter personnel are included, and conceivably every cashier commuting from Georgetown to the Hinesville PX). It still does not excuse the original (and very misguided) expression "Ft. Stewart at Savannah". Ft. Stewart is "at Hinesville". I agree with Born2Roll that there's some definite positive economic effects from Stewart on Savannah's larger CSA, but Savannah is neither a military town nor even a military metropolitan area. It's a much different city in that respect from Columbus, Warner Robins, or Valdosta.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:03 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 5,055,542 times
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Here's a link ya'll may like, it has the migration breakdowns for each metro area in the nation.
Metro Area Population, Migration Data
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Columbus,Georgia
2,663 posts, read 3,961,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airforceguy View Post
Here's a link ya'll may like, it has the migration breakdowns for each metro area in the nation.
Metro Area Population, Migration Data
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:00 AM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta & Savannah, GA - Corpus Christi, TX
4,461 posts, read 7,256,305 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight View Post
Sorry, those statistics just aren't credible -- and they're also skewed in significant ways (i.e., Hunter personnel are included, and conceivably every cashier commuting from Georgetown to the Hinesville PX). It still does not excuse the original (and very misguided) expression "Ft. Stewart at Savannah". Ft. Stewart is "at Hinesville". I agree with Born2Roll that there's some definite positive economic effects from Stewart on Savannah's larger CSA, but Savannah is neither a military town nor even a military metropolitan area. It's a much different city in that respect from Columbus, Warner Robins, or Valdosta.
It most certainly IS a military town and metro.. BUT it is not JUST a military town and metro. That is the difference between places like Columbus, Warner Robins and Valdosta.

Even if you dispute Chatham's numbers, there is definitely no denying the many military families that live in South Bryan (Richmond Hill) and commute down 84 to Stewart. Bryan County is squarely within the MSA. Not only that, Chatham touches the Fort Stewart boundary on the Ogeechee River. That's pretty darn close.
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Old 01-05-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Outer Boroughs, NYC
1,650 posts, read 1,293,645 times
Reputation: 1046
@Wandering. Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but in general, southern cities of any decent size are situated near a military base. The Pentagon chose the Deep South years ago for practical reasons: cheap and plentiful land, southern conservatism, and the southern martial tradition. That still does not make all these southern cities "military towns" -- a city is either a real military town like Columbus, Warner Robins, or Fayetteville or it's not. Savannah is not; Hunter AAF is a few blocks north of Oglethorpe Mall, but it's a small base. The big one, Ft. Stewart, lies far to the south and revolves around Hinesville -- Hinesville's public schools are full of military kids, its shops and restaurants are patronized mostly by military families, and Ft. Stewart employees live in Liberty County and on up the road to Richmond Hill (RH is the southern rim of the Savannah MSA), but not much beyond.

From the stats Alfonega has cited, one might get the impression that fully one-third of Ft. Stewart's soldiers and their families live in Chatham County. Not true. Bryan County perhaps, but not Chatham. There are few Stewart folks living in Savannah-Chatham; in Columbus-Muscogee, every third person you meet actually is affiliated with Ft. Benning.

Last edited by masonbauknight; 01-05-2015 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta & Savannah, GA - Corpus Christi, TX
4,461 posts, read 7,256,305 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonbauknight View Post
@Wandering. Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but in general, southern cities of any decent size are situated near a military base. The Pentagon chose the Deep South years ago for practical reasons: cheap and plentiful land, southern conservatism, and the southern martial tradition. That still does not make all these southern cities "military towns" -- a city is either a real military town like Columbus, Warner Robins, or Fayetteville or it's not. Savannah is not; Hunter AAF is a few blocks north of Oglethorpe Mall, but it's a small base. The big one, Ft. Stewart, lies far to the south and revolves around Hinesville -- Hinesville's public schools are full of military kids, its shops and restaurants are patronized mostly by military families, and Ft. Stewart employees live in Liberty County and on up the road to Richmond Hill (RH is the southern rim of the Savannah MSA), but not much beyond.

From the stats Alfonega has cited, one might get the impression that fully one-third of Ft. Stewart's soldiers and their families live in Chatham County. Not true. Bryan County perhaps, but not Chatham. There are few Stewart folks living in Savannah-Chatham; in Columbus-Muscogee, every third person you meet actually is affiliated with Ft. Benning.
As someone who has lived in Savannah/Chatham for 20+ years and know many people who commute or commuted between Chatham and Fort Stewart, you cannot convince me otherwise.

The fact that you continue to state that Fort Stewart "lies far to the south" shows that you really have no idea. As mentioned in my previous post, the border of Stewart actually touches Chatham (SW to be exact) on the Ogeechee. By roads, it's connected with GA 144, the first exit in Bryan south of Chatham.. hardly "very far to the south".

Finally, there's also no denying the many military people you'll see prowling the streets of downtown spending their hard earned money.

It's a military town, but is soo much more and not what Savannah is truly famous for. THAT is undoubtedly where the confusion lies.
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