Bill filed to annex new Braves stadium into Atlanta (East Point: transfer, mall)

[evannole]

Originally Posted by Gulch

The former (I-75/Northside Parkway corridor) was always going to be expensive even back then. Had Cobb approved MARTA service prior to around 1981, the agency could've worked with GDOT in putting a provision for a rail line into the freeway's median (similar to GA 400 ITP) during the "Freeing the Freeways" widening project.

Because of the higher land costs along I-75, MARTA's original plan was to follow the existing CSX railroad corridor into Cobb, and the planned Northside Drive station, which was to be a temporary terminus of the Northwest Line, would've been at Northside and Holmes Street in Berkeley Park (where the rail tracks currently are).

I certainly hope we get to find out. I'm less than a mile from the CSX tracks. This and a couple of needed extensions and alterations of the system ITP would result in me making frequent use of it. As it stands today, even if I lived on an existing line in town, I couldn't very practically use it to go to work.... but maybe someday...

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by evannole

I certainly hope we get to find out. I'm less than a mile from the CSX tracks. This and a couple of needed extensions and alterations of the system ITP would result in me making frequent use of it. As it stands today, even if I lived on an existing line in town, I couldn't very practically use it to go to work.... but maybe someday...

Don't count on it. Employment centers are too spread out. I could see most of the major employment centers connected by rail, but the mid size areas will be left out.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by evannole

I think we all agree that Cobb, and particularly Cumberland, could really use rail, and that will become even more important with the arrival of the Braves in the area. The historical reluctance of Cobb politicians to embrace this idea is, without a doubt, frustrating.

That said, I also think that we largely agree that the logical route of such a MARTA line would run from somewhere in downtown or Midtown (5 Points, Arts Center or Atlantic Station) up I-75 or U.S. 41 towards Cumberland. Over 80%, perhaps even more, of such a route, if it terminated at Cumberland (though I would hope it would run to Marietta or Town Center) would be within the Atlanta city limits and MARTA's jurisdiction. Hence, technically,speaking, it has been politically possible for all of the time MARTA has existed to build this line at least as far as the current Post Riverside - less than a mile from Vinings - and nothing has even been seriously proposed in recent decades, much less implemented.

I suspect that Buckhead residents may have (and may still) oppose such an expansion, for the same (frivolous) reasons that Cobb leadership has in the past. Even if Cobb were to finally relent (and I hope it does), I do wonder if those living in the vicinity of West Paces Ferry and Northside Parkway would support the construction of such a line, or if they'd try to quietly scuttle it in the background.

The historical Cobb political machine certainly deserves ample criticism for holding up transit expansion, but if MARTA really wanted to get the ball rolling on a northwest line, they have plenty of territory with which to work already, and haven't really tried.

I don't agree about that being the logical route.

To me, the most logical routes would either be an extension of the Green line northwest or a line along 285 N to Perimeter Mall.
The Green line extension would add traffic to a relatively lightly used existing line rather than adding a new line. The 285 line would provide for cross-town traffic and allow the Cobb line to connect to Perimeter, Buckhead and downtown employment districts. Or it could be both if the Green line became a circular route connecting through the Clifton corridor and Lindberg down to the existing eastern terminus of the line.

[RedClear55]

The idea that MARTA could benefit from CoA annexation of Cumberland is intriguing, but would likely not be a primary focus of the effort. As mentioned, any development of ROW would be costly and fraught with complaints from existing NW Atlanta residents. It would seem to me that this happening is unlikely at this point of the Braves development project. The only definitive concept is BRT which would essentially mimic the suggestion that MARTA could have split I-75 over the Chattahoochee.

What intrigues me more is the existing CSX rail line that broaches Cumberland near the mall (and main CCT hub) before splicing through Vinings, Smyrna, Marietta, Kennesaw and Acworth on its way NW to Chattanooga. If the state could negotiate a lease for regional rail (think LIRR in NYC Metro), in essence we could force Cobb's hand on expanding HRT. The complement would be to add MARTA rail between Cumberland and Perimeter (and hopefully beyond).

From the Braves perspective, we cover the west side of the park with regional rail access and east side with MARTA. Not to mention, it might expand Braves reach to fans who wouldn't normally drive to downtown Atlanta from the NW counties.

Not sure the feasibility of that plan, but it must be cheaper than building out HRT for MARTA and would be more effective than BRT which suffers from existing, and growing, traffic concerns. Just do something already.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by RedClear55

The idea that MARTA could benefit from CoA annexation of Cumberland is intriguing, but would likely not be a primary focus of the effort. As mentioned, any development of ROW would be costly and fraught with complaints from existing NW Atlanta residents. It would seem to me that this happening is unlikely at this point of the Braves development project. The only definitive concept is BRT which would essentially mimic the suggestion that MARTA could have split I-75 over the Chattahoochee.

What intrigues me more is the existing CSX rail line that broaches Cumberland near the mall (and main CCT hub) before splicing through Vinings, Smyrna, Marietta, Kennesaw and Acworth on its way NW to Chattanooga. If the state could negotiate a lease for regional rail (think LIRR in NYC Metro), in essence we could force Cobb's hand on expanding HRT. The complement would be to add MARTA rail between Cumberland and Perimeter (and hopefully beyond).

From the Braves perspective, we cover the west side of the park with regional rail access and east side with MARTA. Not to mention, it might expand Braves reach to fans who wouldn't normally drive to downtown Atlanta from the NW counties.

Not sure the feasibility of that plan, but it must be cheaper than building out HRT for MARTA and would be more effective than BRT which suffers from existing, and growing, traffic concerns. Just do something already.

Very well reasoned. And if memory serves me, that CSX line is actually owned by the state, and leased to CSX.

[RedClear55]

Originally Posted by evannole

And if memory serves me, that CSX line is actually owned by the state, and leased to CSX.

All the better!

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by bu2

I don't agree about that being the logical route.

To me, the most logical routes would either be an extension of the Green line northwest or a line along 285 N to Perimeter Mall.
The Green line extension would add traffic to a relatively lightly used existing line rather than adding a new line. The 285 line would provide for cross-town traffic and allow the Cobb line to connect to Perimeter, Buckhead and downtown employment districts. Or it could be both if the Green line became a circular route connecting through the Clifton corridor and Lindberg down to the existing eastern terminus of the line.

This isn't logical either. Cumberland needs to have a single seat ride to Midtown, Downtown & the Airport off of the Red/Gold lines as originally envisioned. The line across 285 to Doraville is a given, and has been proposed for years now.

Forcing a transfer at Five Points for an expanded Green Line to Cumberland would have miniscule ridership, compared to the originally proposed line north of Arts Center.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by JMatl

This isn't logical either. Cumberland needs to have a single seat ride to Midtown, Downtown & the Airport off of the Red/Gold lines as originally envisioned. The line across 285 to Doraville is a given, and has been proposed for years now.

Forcing a transfer at Five Points for an expanded Green Line to Cumberland would have miniscule ridership, compared to the originally proposed line north of Arts Center.

Beat me to it! Forcing people to do a U- or J-shaped routing with a transfer at Five Points to get to the main job centers in the north part of downtown and Midtown would result in terrible ridership. Cumberland is closer to Midtown as the crow flies than Doraville, Chamblee, and about the same as Perimeter/Dunwoody, all of which have direct service. If MARTA ever comes to Cumberland, it needs to be a one-seat ride or people simply won't use it.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by evannole

Beat me to it! Forcing people to do a U- or J-shaped routing with a transfer at Five Points to get to the main job centers in the north part of downtown and Midtown would result in terrible ridership. Cumberland is closer to Midtown as the crow flies than Doraville, Chamblee, and about the same as Perimeter/Dunwoody, all of which have direct service. If MARTA ever comes to Cumberland, it needs to be a one-seat ride or people simply won't use it.

Unless you build a new line, or quad-track the existing line, I don't think that will work. MARTA struggles to keep from being delayed with 5 minute headways, I'm not sure they could handle a third full line the entire length of the Red/Gold trunk. Yes yes, I know "BUT BUT! DESIGNED FOR 90 SECOND HEADWAYS!" Yes I know, but that's only the theoretical design headway, as a daily rider, believe me, the 5 minute headways are frequently a struggle already.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by Gulch

MLB and the Braves (who own the territorial rights) would never allow it.

i don't see why not. the bay area also has two teams. i think eventually we will probably have two MLB teams, albeit probably not now.