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Old 08-02-2015, 01:44 PM
 
559 posts, read 636,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
This bridge is only good for game day use. It is 1 travel lane and a mutli-use path wide. It will not be open for drivers to use, although I suspect some will try, when there s not a game.
I could go either way on the bridge, but this is just not true.

Braves mixed-use plans are to have ~ 18 restaurants, including a micro-brewery, and the Roxy for concert events.

Cobb Galleria hosts 100's of thousands of visitors every year for conventions, trade shows, seminars, etc. Do you not think any of those visitors will eat at the restaurants or attend a concert at the Roxy? Right now, the only walkable choices for Galleria conventioners are 3 Galleria restaurants or walk the bridge to Cumberland Mall.

And if the whole attempt is to make Cumberland more "walkable", then it's not out of the question that some of the non-driving teenagers that frequent Cumberland on weekends could walk the 2 bridges to eat/hang out at the restaurants/Roxy.
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:47 PM
 
9,918 posts, read 6,909,650 times
Reputation: 3022
DawgPark-

Everywhere has more development than they have had sense the economic crash.

Cumberland is still getting crushed by other metro markets.

Midtown for example has 15k new residents on the way. Is that the Braves halo effect too?



(Credit to RATBOYKEV on SkyScraper Page)
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:29 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,295,548 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
This bridge is only good for game day use. It is 1 travel lane and a mutli-use path wide. It will not be open for drivers to use, although I suspect some will try, when there s not a game.
Have you ever walked on Cobb Parkway from the Galleria to Circle 75? The sidewalk could be twice as wide, and it would still be scary crossing a highway entrance, a highway exit, and having cars whizz by. The streetscapes they have done, benches, and better crossings don't change that. Nor does it change that it's still a helluva walk from the Cobb Energy PAC and shopping around it to Circle 75. For pedestrians, Cumberland CID is disjointed and a large amount of that is because of the interchange. I have mentioned before that it was originally my proposal to the CID as I was part of the committee selected before the Braves announcement, had nothing to do with the Braves, and doesn't need the Braves to be useful. It is useful for reasons to connect the North and South part of Cumberland and make the "core" Cumberland more than just the area SW of the interchange, which was the original idea that I was against. The pedestrian bridge is part of connecting the CID for pedestrians around the interchange and making it one cohesive district.

Our committee meetings were cancelled by the CID after Braves announcement since it "changed everything", but the pedestrian bridge was already fresh on everyone's mind along with the validation of my complaint that the "core" was more than just the SW part of the interchange. If it were just useful for gamedays, it wouldn't be a consideration before the Braves. The Braves just made it happen.

And thanks to that, if you are walking from - say - Chico's to your new apartment of Herodian way, your trip will be about 20-30 minutes shorter.

Last edited by netdragon; 08-02-2015 at 06:41 PM..
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:46 PM
 
28,148 posts, read 24,679,387 times
Reputation: 9544
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgPark View Post
I could go either way on the bridge, but this is just not true.

Braves mixed-use plans are to have ~ 18 restaurants, including a micro-brewery, and the Roxy for concert events.

Cobb Galleria hosts 100's of thousands of visitors every year for conventions, trade shows, seminars, etc. Do you not think any of those visitors will eat at the restaurants or attend a concert at the Roxy? Right now, the only walkable choices for Galleria conventioners are 3 Galleria restaurants or walk the bridge to Cumberland Mall.

And if the whole attempt is to make Cumberland more "walkable", then it's not out of the question that some of the non-driving teenagers that frequent Cumberland on weekends could walk the 2 bridges to eat/hang out at the restaurants/Roxy.
Yeah, it makes sense for the community.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:51 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,295,548 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
DawgPark-

Everywhere has more development than they have had sense the economic crash.

Cumberland is still getting crushed by other metro markets.

Midtown for example has 15k new residents on the way. Is that the Braves halo effect too?
Cumberland is no slouch. Using the same multiplier, I count 6k new residents, and that's in the district. Not bad for a market not having the historical momentum midtown has, a grid, etc etc. And this is an underestimate since some are townhomes, which sometimes have families.

3953 units * 1.5 = ~ 6k

You can't really expect it to beat midtown, can you? That seems unreasonable as a comparison of the Braves' effect. The Braves announcement did two things: It led to new investment, and it brought shelved/stalled projects back onto the table.

But I'll take half the growth of midtown in a pretty similarly sized area (and pretty much identical if you eliminate the land the interchange is on). That's still pretty impressive.

Add the adjoining Smyrna,Vinings/Spring Hill,Marietta,East Cobb,Sandy Springs,Buckhead neighborhoods within walking distance that are really outcroppings of Cumberland and you get more.

Smyrna has its own thing going with Belmont Hills and Jonquil Village, but you can't say that the stadium didn't help spur Jonquil Village along (now in zoning for the first time after the 2013 council rejection of Branch's plan).

So let's take Jonquil Village as a case-study. It is a mile away and still feeling the impact: The Braves did have some non-zero impact in this, since Halpern most likely got investment a little easier to acquire it from Branch (happened after the Braves' announcement). It's also suddenly a lot easier to get investment for retail there, and the grocery store is back in the plan after 7 years of not wanting to be part of it. No surprise, with all the new people coming to the area (Braves effect). It is right down the street from the coming stadium development, after all (and I own an investment property halfway in-between muwahaha )


Last edited by netdragon; 08-02-2015 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:54 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
1,405 posts, read 1,157,751 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgPark View Post
I could go either way on the bridge, but this is just not true.

Braves mixed-use plans are to have ~ 18 restaurants, including a micro-brewery, and the Roxy for concert events.

Cobb Galleria hosts 100's of thousands of visitors every year for conventions, trade shows, seminars, etc. Do you not think any of those visitors will eat at the restaurants or attend a concert at the Roxy? Right now, the only walkable choices for Galleria conventioners are 3 Galleria restaurants or walk the bridge to Cumberland Mall.

And if the whole attempt is to make Cumberland more "walkable", then it's not out of the question that some of the non-driving teenagers that frequent Cumberland on weekends could walk the 2 bridges to eat/hang out at the restaurants/Roxy.
But, don't the Braves own the entire development? So they own the land and the buildings, and restaurants are renting out their space. So really, the Braves are still the big winners by building that bridge, since it leads only to their property. This is why they left the COA, because the city and county would not give them all the land around the stadium to do what they wanted, so they wouldn't make the profit. If that's the case, then I still think the Braves should be responsible to pay for a bridge that accesses only their property.
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:15 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,295,548 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCATL View Post
But, don't the Braves own the entire development? So they own the land and the buildings, and restaurants are renting out their space. So really, the Braves are still the big winners by building that bridge, since it leads only to their property. This is why they left the COA, because the city and county would not give them all the land around the stadium to do what they wanted, so they wouldn't make the profit. If that's the case, then I still think the Braves should be responsible to pay for a bridge that accesses only their property.
Why should the Braves have to pay for something Cumberland needed anyway, and is more of a win for the Galleria and retail in the area than the Braves?

It's more of a win for the Galleria and area shopping than it is for the Braves since it brings people from the Braves' games back to the Galleria to shop in the atrophied convention center mall, or for those who have their walking shoes on, the much more successful Aker's Square and Cumberland Mall. It also gets people into the Galleria hotels easier. Yes, the Braves benefit some on off-game days and from hotel convenience, but I think the benefit to the Galleria is much greater.

As for why Cumberland needs it anyway, please read my post for why that bridge is a lot more important for Cumberland than just for the Braves, and why it was a topic before the Braves' announcement. In short, it is a first step in undoing the walkability damage of the interchange for connecting all of Cumberland together for pedestrians. If you ever walked around Galleria and Circle-75, you'd realize why having to go to Cobb Parkway or Aker's Mill crossings or the other few crossings to get around the whole of Cumberland is inadequate. It is also part of why there is historically a disproportionate amount of development in the SW Cumberland area formerly "core" district versus the other areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
For pedestrians, Cumberland CID is disjointed and a large amount of that is because of the interchange. I have mentioned before that it was originally my proposal to the CID as I was part of the committee selected before the Braves announcement, had nothing to do with the Braves, and doesn't need the Braves to be useful. It is useful for reasons to connect the North and South part of Cumberland and make the "core" Cumberland more than just the area SW of the interchange, which was the original idea that I was against. The pedestrian bridge is part of connecting the CID for pedestrians around the interchange and making it one cohesive district.

Our committee meetings were cancelled by the CID after Braves announcement since it "changed everything", but the pedestrian bridge was already fresh on everyone's mind along with the validation of my complaint that the "core" was more than just the SW part of the interchange. If it were just useful for gamedays, it wouldn't be a consideration before the Braves. The Braves just made it happen.

And thanks to that, if you are walking from - say - Chico's to your new apartment of Herodian way, your trip will be about 20-30 minutes shorter.
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,295,548 times
Reputation: 814
Hindsight is 20/20, but just so you can understand the BEFORE THE BRAVES thinking on the pedestrian bridge, here's my original email on the topic before the Braves move was known to anyone but Tim Lee... I think it gives additional context to why the bridge was always needed for Cumberland and why it isn't just a Braves thing.

Obviously, after the announcement, I went on to push the pedestrian bridge much harder since I know an opportunity when I see one.

XXXX means redacted by me for personal reasons

Quote:
From: XXXXX [XXXXX]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 2:27 AM
To: 'XXXXX@cobbcounty.org'
Subject: Feedback - Cumberland CID Master



To whom it may concern:



I’m a XXXXX, but I’m speaking for myself.



The main issue I see is this idea of “Cumberland Core” is having I-75 and I-285 as a barrier which is enhancing one of the biggest existing problems with Cumberland, and doesn’t do anything to solve it. This problem is how the highways break up Cumberland, decreasing walkability. Instead, expand the core area North over I-285 to Circle 75 and East across I-75 to Overton Park and use this as an opportunity to solve some of these challenges. For example, build a pedestrian bridge over I-285 in the center of Galleria and Circle 75 so that Cobb Parkway isn’t the only crossing on the East part of the Galleria.

Other considerations:

1. Walkability and connectedness in general, especially pedestrian routes that cut through blocks to avoid intimidating walks along high-traffic roads. Including pedestrian bridges over interstates where necessary!

2. More mixed-use and residential development, especially as infill.

3. Decrease of empty space by adding infill to decrease suburban look in favor of a more urban and efficient use of the land. E.g. lining Cobb Parkway along Cumberland Mall parking lot with mixed-use and underground parking to better use that land.

4. A light rail connection to perimeter or midtown to be more competitive with these areas for businesses that rely on rail to airport and other destinations. Otherwise, competition is with North Fulton, and not even with the Perimeter area which is pulling far ahead.

5. Expand CID into Smyrna along Spring Rd up to Cumberland Blvd or Sports Ave in cooperation with Smyrna or work with Smyrna to make this corridor match streetscapes throughout CID and develop a joint master plan for that part of Smyrna. This area is just too integrated with Cumberland to continue to be ignored by the Cumberland CID.
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: ATL -> HOU
4,129 posts, read 3,228,851 times
Reputation: 3149
Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Have you ever walked on Cobb Parkway from the Galleria to Circle 75? The sidewalk could be twice as wide, and it would still be scary crossing a highway entrance, a highway exit, and having cars whizz by.
Just driving it is scary enough. It's really terrible for pedestrians just trying to get under 285. Last time I drove through I didn't even notice if there was a sidewalk going NB. Looked like just padded down grass.
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:26 PM
 
9,918 posts, read 6,909,650 times
Reputation: 3022
So you all think Cumberland would have been sunk and had 0 development during this boom without the Braves? I am not buying it. I don't think the Braves deserve credit for any net-positive development in Cumberland. They drove off as much potential development as they brought in. But Cobb is not going to be boasting about the backroom deals that fell apart as a result of this.

And studies on stadium neighborhoods show that. Sure there will be some development but the studies show that comparable neighborhoods without a stadium get just as much if not more development. Heck, Doraville has more units in the pipeline than Cumberland does. The GM development is a bigger draw for development than the Braves. Cobb should have saved its money and gone with a development that people actually want to live and work near. Not a stadium.

And of course it is not like it is an unknown what the long term effects of a stadium are in Atlanta. Just look at Summerhill and Vine City.
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