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Old 08-02-2015, 08:28 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,293,288 times
Reputation: 814

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So you all think Cumberland would have been sunk and had 0 development during this boom without the Braves?
No, but it did double it, in my opinion. It also accelerated some things that would have happened anyway by a few years.

I've been sifting through zoning meetings and articles and keeping track of things on devmap.io in Cumberland though I am a little behind on updating it. At this stage, however, I think it's tough to stay "stadium effect" anymore on anything brand new. It's more like "new normal" at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
They drove off as much potential development as they brought in.
It drove off some medium-density residential and commercial development, and attracted more townhome and higher-density development. The only high-density anything I know of that was driven off was the Genuine Parts HQ but they moved to another part of Cumberland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Just look at Summerhill and Vine City.
That's not because of the stadiums. It's because of suburban flight in the 60s.

In fact, studies of economic impact of stadiums find that most stadiums didn't result in an enhanced environment in the surrounds because most were built in low-income areas and that was the biggest problem. The mixed use of the new stadium plus the high-income surroundings and existing office environment will make for a very different dynamic. It's a bit of an experiment, and maybe it's scary that the experiment is Cumberland but so far so good.

Last edited by netdragon; 08-02-2015 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Downtown Marietta
1,062 posts, read 690,538 times
Reputation: 1334
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So you all think Cumberland would have been sunk and had 0 development during this boom without the Braves? I am not buying it. I don't think the Braves deserve credit for any net-positive development in Cumberland. They drove off as much potential development as they brought in. But Cobb is not going to be boasting about the backroom deals that fell apart as a result of this.

And studies on stadium neighborhoods show that. Sure there will be some development but the studies show that comparable neighborhoods without a stadium get just as much if not more development. Heck, Doraville has more units in the pipeline than Cumberland does. The GM development is a bigger draw for development than the Braves. Cobb should have saved its money and gone with a development that people actually want to live and work near. Not a stadium.

And of course it is not like it is an unknown what the long term effects of a stadium are in Atlanta. Just look at Summerhill and Vine City.
And how many million square feet of Class A office space, mid-to-high end retail and residential and interesting restaurant space were planned in conjunction with either Turner Field (Summerhill) or the Georgia Dome (Vine City) when they were built, or since?

Oh yeah, zero...

This is going to be unlike any stadium development ever done in the U.S. About time someone tries this.

As to the pedestrian bridge being "only" for the Braves: you do realize that there are already hundreds of residential units just behind the stadium site, including some very nice townhouses (I almost bought one 6 or 7 years ago), with many hundreds more to come, don't you? (Perhaps not... I know you say you refuse to visit Cobb.) It is likely that many of those folks work at or around the Galleria, and this will make it much easier, more pleasant and safer to walk or bike to work.
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:42 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,293,288 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by evannole View Post
Perhaps not... I know you say you refuse to visit Cobb.
Exactly. What I think we need is a giant parade float with a giant computer with Curbed on it, and just keep the float going from midtown to the perimeter.

via Imgflip Meme Maker
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,293,288 times
Reputation: 814
Or better yet, something you can use on Curbed itself...
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 6,293,288 times
Reputation: 814
Hehe

Quote:
“The next year and a half is going to be something in this area. Anybody who has to travel on Windy Hill (Road), I’m sorry,” Wilgus said. “I don’t know a road that you can safely travel on that’s not going to have construction on it in Cumberland. I’ll just go ahead and say that.”

Read more: The Marietta Daily Journal - Expect traffic construction officials tell Cumberland
I love this one from Smyrna's mayor.

Quote:
“Is it going to be an issue? Yeah. I’m not going to sit here and tell you traffic’s going to be better now that the Braves are here. It’s going to be a little problem,” Bacon said.

Read more: The Marietta Daily Journal - Bacon Of course Braves will bring more traffic
Throw in a paradox, a little head-scratching, and we're all set...

Quote:
“I think people will eventually figure out how to get there, and once they figure out how to get there, it’s going to be OK. Or if it’s not going to be OK, it’s going to be OK,” Bacon said with a smile.


Just another day in the life of metro ATL, eh?

Last edited by netdragon; 08-02-2015 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,166 posts, read 16,173,511 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I was reading about the plan to provide walking, cycling and park upgrades along MLK from the Falcons stadium to Fulton Industrial Boulevard. This will include a pedestrian bridge over I-285.

Apparently the city of Atlanta is asking the state of Georgia to chip in $11.5 million. They want federal taxpayers to pick up the tab for another $30 million. That's nearly 70% of the entire cost of the project.

Cobb should be so lucky.
MLK is a state roadway GA State Route 139, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_State_Route_139. The MLK project will benefit a lot more than just Arthur Blank and the Falcons, it will make MLK a complete street and benefit the communities along it. Comparing these 2 projects are apples to oranges.
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,166 posts, read 16,173,511 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Have you ever walked on Cobb Parkway from the Galleria to Circle 75? The sidewalk could be twice as wide, and it would still be scary crossing a highway entrance, a highway exit, and having cars whizz by. The streetscapes they have done, benches, and better crossings don't change that. Nor does it change that it's still a helluva walk from the Cobb Energy PAC and shopping around it to Circle 75. For pedestrians, Cumberland CID is disjointed and a large amount of that is because of the interchange. I have mentioned before that it was originally my proposal to the CID as I was part of the committee selected before the Braves announcement, had nothing to do with the Braves, and doesn't need the Braves to be useful. It is useful for reasons to connect the North and South part of Cumberland and make the "core" Cumberland more than just the area SW of the interchange, which was the original idea that I was against. The pedestrian bridge is part of connecting the CID for pedestrians around the interchange and making it one cohesive district.

Our committee meetings were cancelled by the CID after Braves announcement since it "changed everything", but the pedestrian bridge was already fresh on everyone's mind along with the validation of my complaint that the "core" was more than just the SW part of the interchange. If it were just useful for gamedays, it wouldn't be a consideration before the Braves. The Braves just made it happen.

And thanks to that, if you are walking from - say - Chico's to your new apartment of Herodian way, your trip will be about 20-30 minutes shorter.
This is the same issues that plaque Perimeter Center, just throwing up sidewalks and streetscaping does not make an area instantly walkable. The only way to make pedestrians more comfortable is to SLOW DOWN cars on the surface streets. Removing pedestrians from the sidewalks is not the answer, it removes all street level activity and extra eyes on the street, making the sidewalks feel unsafe because there are no pedestrians around. The proposed bridge connects directly into the Galleria parking garage, how is that going to be safe and feel inviting for peds/cyclists during non-game days? Parking lots are the most dangerous areas for peds.
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Old 08-03-2015, 07:28 AM
 
9,916 posts, read 6,906,853 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by evannole View Post
And how many million square feet of Class A office space, mid-to-high end retail and residential and interesting restaurant space were planned in conjunction with either Turner Field (Summerhill) or the Georgia Dome (Vine City) when they were built, or since?

Oh yeah, zero...

This is going to be unlike any stadium development ever done in the U.S. About time someone tries this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
In fact, studies of economic impact of stadiums find that most stadiums didn't result in an enhanced environment in the surrounds because most were built in low-income areas and that was the biggest problem. The mixed use of the new stadium plus the high-income surroundings and existing office environment will make for a very different dynamic. It's a bit of an experiment, and maybe it's scary that the experiment is Cumberland but so far so good.

Doing the walkable mixed-use thing is a great idea. But the benefits that is bringing should not be confused with any perceived benefit the Braves are bringing. As the Doraville GM plant shows, you would have got better results by just doing a large mixed-use development without a stadium. Plus it would have saved you half a billion tax dollars.

Good luck on your half a billion tax dollar experiment to find out if the mixed use benefits will be enough to offset the negative effects of the stadium.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,166 posts, read 16,173,511 times
Reputation: 4894
The Braves development will be as walkable as Avalon is. Almost everyone will drive and the only walkable part will be the development itself.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:08 AM
 
28,140 posts, read 24,671,942 times
Reputation: 9534
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
MLK is a state roadway GA State Route 139, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_State_Route_139. The MLK project will benefit a lot more than just Arthur Blank and the Falcons, it will make MLK a complete street and benefit the communities along it. Comparing these 2 projects are apples to oranges.
I'm talking about the pedestrian bridges. Cobb asking for state help to build one doesn't seem very different from the COA asking for state help to build one.
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