Braves stadium/development to cost $1.1 billion (Atlanta: sales, public transportation, designs)

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

So all these massive GDOT improvements in the city of Atlanta have been fleecing the state?

Originally Posted by evannole

Amen, arjay.

And by the same logic, the Atlanta Streetcar is a fleecing of federal taxpayers... At many times the cost of this bridge.

Seriously, the simple fact that someone doesn't like or intend to personally use a project doesn't necessarily make it a "fleecing." And one of the biggest complaints of detractors of the stadium project is the level of walkability (or lack thereof) in the area. This will certainly help to improve it.

I daresay that if this were a pedestrian bridge over I-20 on the east side, certain detractors of the stadium would be falling all over themselves, they'd be so excited.

Originally Posted by arjay57

If all this was happening where the current stadium is people would be doing backflips.

Oh good grief! Do you not understand the fact that the new braves boondoggle WILL NOT benefit anyone except themselves and whoever is in their pockets??? The taxpayers receive NOTHING from the stadium except a higher tax bill, more traffic in a place that can't handle what's already there, and more attempts at extortion by other interests (see: The Hawks).

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by evannole

Amen, arjay.

And by the same logic, the Atlanta Streetcar is a fleecing of federal taxpayers... At many times the cost of this bridge.

Seriously, the simple fact that someone doesn't like or intend to personally use a project doesn't necessarily make it a "fleecing." And one of the biggest complaints of detractors of the stadium project is the level of walkability (or lack thereof) in the area. This will certainly help to improve it.

I daresay that if this were a pedestrian bridge over I-20 on the east side, certain detractors of the stadium would be falling all over themselves, they'd be so excited.

GDOT has an obligation to maintain state roadways in the CoA; Moreland Ave, Ponce, Peachtree, Memorial, MLK, etc. This is bridge is an amenity to help a multibillion dollar corporation on one of their investments. We don't need a ped bridge over 20 on the eastside because we have plenty of crossable road bridges; Moreland, Bill Kennedy, Clifton St, Boulevard, Hill St, Cherokee St. The fact remains that this bridge will serve a small portion of the population and is only meant to help consumers visit a private development that over $300M of taxpayer money is helping to fund. State taxpayers are helping the Braves development enough, look at the NW HOT lanes or the proposed plan to use GRTA buses to transport visitors from P&R lots along 75 and 575 to the stadium. I doubt the Braves organization will fund 100% of those buses, just as they nearly let the MARTA Braves Shuttle shut down because they wanted the citizens of Fulton and DeKalb to foot the entire bill.
As for the streetcar comment, it was part of the TIGER grants and if Atlanta didn't get awarded that money it would have gone to another project in another state, so why not get the ONLY transit investment in GA since 2001?

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by cqholt

, look at the NW HOT lanes or the proposed plan to use GRTA buses to transport visitors from P&R lots along 75 and 575 to the stadium. I doubt the Braves organization will fund 100% of those buses,

In fairness, the NW Corridor project will bypass the stadium (unless you count the Terrell Mill exit).

As for the streetcar comment, it was part of the TIGER grants and if Atlanta didn't get awarded that money it would have gone to another project in another state, so why not get the ONLY transit investment in GA since 2001?

But, but...boondoggle!

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Gulch

In fairness, the NW Corridor project will bypass the stadium (unless you count the Terrell Mill exit).



But, but...boondoggle!

As well as Akers Mill.
You are correct, but it will give fans an option to pay the toll and bypass any traffic.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by cqholt

As well as Akers Mill.
You are correct, but it will give fans an option to pay the toll and bypass any traffic.

True. I just never saw it as part of the Braves "subsidy" (no matter what Cobb County is touting as "transportation improvements" for stadium access).

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

GDOT has an obligation to maintain state roadways in the CoA; Moreland Ave, Ponce, Peachtree, Memorial, MLK, etc. This is bridge is an amenity to help a multibillion dollar corporation on one of their investments. We don't need a ped bridge over 20 on the eastside because we have plenty of crossable road bridges; Moreland, Bill Kennedy, Clifton St, Boulevard, Hill St, Cherokee St. The fact remains that this bridge will serve a small portion of the population and is only meant to help consumers visit a private development that over $300M of taxpayer money is helping to fund. State taxpayers are helping the Braves development enough, look at the NW HOT lanes or the proposed plan to use GRTA buses to transport visitors from P&R lots along 75 and 575 to the stadium. I doubt the Braves organization will fund 100% of those buses, just as they nearly let the MARTA Braves Shuttle shut down because they wanted the citizens of Fulton and DeKalb to foot the entire bill.
As for the streetcar comment, it was part of the TIGER grants and if Atlanta didn't get awarded that money it would have gone to another project in another state, so why not get the ONLY transit investment in GA since 2001?

What about all the dramatic streetscape improvements and bridges GDOT has built on Ivan Allen, Fifth Street, 14h Street, 17 Street, Peachtree, etc.?

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

What about all the dramatic streetscape improvements and bridges GDOT has built on Ivan Allen, Fifth Street, 14h Street, 17 Street, Peachtree, etc.?

Where those funded by GDOT or the CIDs? Those bridges are used for more than accessing a private development, some are part of the state freight network plan, some are state maintained roadways. As a CoA resident and taxpayer, why do you continue to defend the actions of Cobb County in trying to get the state to fund improvements that will only benefit Liberty Media? The state has already funded an alternative route for pedestrians, via Cobb Pkwy. While it does not provide direct pedestrian access from the Galleria parking lots to the development, it is adequate pedestrian infrastructure.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Where those funded by GDOT or the CIDs? Those bridges are used for more than accessing a private development, some are part of the state freight network plan, some are state maintained roadways. As a CoA resident and taxpayer, why do you continue to defend the actions of Cobb County in trying to get the state to fund improvements that will only benefit Liberty Media? The state has already funded an alternative route for pedestrians, via Cobb Pkwy. While it does not provide direct pedestrian access from the Galleria parking lots to the development, it is adequate pedestrian infrastructure.

GDOT carries the load on these projects, with some help from the CIDs on occasion.

Most people don't realize how much GDOT puts into local transportation, with bridges, streetscapes, right of way acquisition, engineering, lighting, ramps, new lanes and roads, traffic signals, restriping, you name it.

This Cobb bridge is peanuts compared to what GDOT pours into the COA.

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[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

GDOT carries the load on these projects, with some help from the CIDs on occasion.

Most people don't realize how much GDOT puts into local transportation, with bridges, streetscapes, right of way acquisition, engineering, lighting, ramps, new lanes and roads, traffic signals, restriping, you name it.

This Cobb bridge is peanuts compared to what GDOT pours into the COA.

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You are comparing 1 bridge that is 30' wide to an entire city of 450K people, the state capital, largest city in the state, economic engine of the state and SE. GDOT should be spending money on maintaining existing infrastructure before building new infrastructure.

[arjay57]

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of claiming it's "fleecing" in Cobb (a county of 750,000) but it's all hunky-dory when the state dumps zillions into the city of Atlanta.