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Old 03-09-2015, 10:25 PM
 
Location: In your feelings
2,199 posts, read 1,490,841 times
Reputation: 2168

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I think we could all have a little bit more empathy for the people who pick up our trash... a job that goes without much thanks and without which our society would collapse. I highly doubt many of them are choosing to work ultra-early shifts. It was reprehensible to send a man to jail for simply doing his job. Considering the pittance we pay the people who do jobs like sanitation work, I don't think we should exactly expect them to familiarize themselves with the entire local code of every jurisdiction in which they work. They should be able to trust that their employer won't tell them to do something that's against the law. If you want to throw the CEO of Waste Management in jail, go for it, but leave this guy alone.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
975 posts, read 808,629 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetar View Post
I think we could all have a little bit more empathy for the people who pick up our trash... a job that goes without much thanks and without which our society would collapse. I highly doubt many of them are choosing to work ultra-early shifts. It was reprehensible to send a man to jail for simply doing his job. Considering the pittance we pay the people who do jobs like sanitation work, I don't think we should exactly expect them to familiarize themselves with the entire local code of every jurisdiction in which they work. They should be able to trust that their employer won't tell them to do something that's against the law. If you want to throw the CEO of Waste Management in jail, go for it, but leave this guy alone.
Agree 100%. Reprehensible is a perfect word to describe the City of Sandy Springs' actions. I was also thinking that it was this guy's employer who put him in a position to get into trouble with the city (assuming that he's not a rogue trash collector who randomly sets his own hours). It's his employer (someone in a decision-making capacity) and not this worker who should have faced charges. And this worker deserves to have the charges erased from his record in addition to having his sentence suspended.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,301 posts, read 1,423,334 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetar View Post
I think we could all have a little bit more empathy for the people who pick up our trash... a job that goes without much thanks and without which our society would collapse. I highly doubt many of them are choosing to work ultra-early shifts. It was reprehensible to send a man to jail for simply doing his job. Considering the pittance we pay the people who do jobs like sanitation work, I don't think we should exactly expect them to familiarize themselves with the entire local code of every jurisdiction in which they work. They should be able to trust that their employer won't tell them to do something that's against the law. If you want to throw the CEO of Waste Management in jail, go for it, but leave this guy alone.
I've always been told to never expect sympathy nor an apology for the idiocy behind wrongdoing of fools. In this case it is Sandy Springs and a small couple of posters whom think what Sandy Springs did is justified or should be unapologetic. Ultimately, their idiocy will be the primary contributor of their own undoing...
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:46 AM
 
28,140 posts, read 24,671,942 times
Reputation: 9534
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetar View Post
I think we could all have a little bit more empathy for the people who pick up our trash... a job that goes without much thanks and without which our society would collapse.
People will put all kinds of things in the trash -- bullets, gasoline, needles, chemicals, and worse.

It is a very dangerous job in many ways, including the risk of getting hit by impatient drivers who simply can't wait a few minutes.

On the other hand, I have driven a dumpster truck myself and our boss was very rigid about us not going out too early. It makes people mad as a hornet. There is also a way to handle these dumpsters without banging them around. A good driver can get in and out without making a bunch of racket, and will not drop or damage the receptacle.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:35 AM
 
2,166 posts, read 1,042,269 times
Reputation: 1651
Picking on a hard-working individual rather than doing his job (the prosecutor) and going after the company is pathetic and lazy.

I didn't even know that it was possible for an employee to face punishment for an action that he was doing under the company is working for. I always thought it was the employer who faced any penalty. You know I have to wonder if this man was picked on because of his line of work. I very rarely (especially with white collar crimes) see an individual get into trouble...if there is any punishment, it is usually the company that is penalized.

With that being said, I am curious what was meant by fines not working. I have read this article but don't see if the prosecutor has ever used the maximum fine amount. If so, then perhaps the fine amount needs to change to a much bigger amount. A punishment isn't effective if businesses are still doing what they have been told not to do. If something doesn't work (fining the company for example), then it needs to be modified and perhaps it can be used in conjunction with another punishment. If not, then introduce new ideas and implement them to see what works. Though I am pretty sure hurting a company's wallet is the best method of getting them to change.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:08 PM
 
2,373 posts, read 2,828,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsernameCreativity View Post
A sound violation is equally not an emergency, certainly not a life and death one.
I agree, and like I said before, I don't think jail time is warranted in a first offense situation - but then how often do you get to flout the law before you should go to jail? 3x? 5x? 10x? If it's 5x couldn't Waste Management just keep sending a driver out until he picks up the 4th fine then put another driver on a route in a different city until he gets 4 fines? Then another and another? If you have 10 employees you could get 40 violations before anyone gets busted.

You have to go after the management plain and simple.

Quote:
And yet plenty of residents in Sandy Springs are apparently utilizing an emergency service because they simply do not like the type of noise that is associated with a vitally important service.
This is SOP for any police department that uses data driven policing. If you call their regular line with a complaint of a crime or violation they'll tell you to hang up and call 911. If they get 10 calls from the 19xx block of Sandy Springs Road every Tuesday at 5:05am you can be darn sure there's going to be a cop there waiting at 5:05am on the 4th Tuesday . . . and I can guarantee that's exactly what happened in this case. The driver might be saying this is the first time the police ever caught him but it's most definitely not the first time he's done it.

Quote:
Furthermore, the city should be taking the appropriate steps to make sure that private companies are following the law. If a private company is breaking a law - such as requiring or allowing workers to operate outside of appropriate times - those companies should be the ones harshly punished, not the employees.
If the company is ordering their employees to be out on the road before it's legal then I completely agree - it should be the management paying the price.

Quote:
Guess what - these two cities you used as examples are in states that do not have right to work laws, and these two cities also have a strong history of unions that protect workers. Workers in these cities are unlikely to be required to operate routes that are too long and/or with traffic hazards that prevent getting the route done during a normal 8 hour workday.
Sanitation workers in Philly work more than an 8 hour day but the point isn't how long they're working - it's that the city doesn't shut down just because they pick garbage up after 7am. It's not a tough law to follow.

Quote:
Yup, international airports are going to be operating at all times unless there is inclement weather. Military airstrips also seem to operate at random hours.
A few international airports are open 24/7 but that doesn't mean they have arrivals and departures at all hours. The international airport in Sydney is a notable example of an airport that is closed overnight specifically because of noise issues. JFK is a busy international airport receiving flights from up to 16 hours away and it's mostly just open for the dozen or so arrivals that happen between 1am and 5am. There are a handful of departures from JFK between 2am and 3am and none between 3 and 5am. And most of those flights are taking off and/or landing over the open ocean and a wildlife refuge.

Other big airports like PHL, BWI, SFO, etc. all close for 4-5 hours overnight. It's why the latest flights from the west coast back to the east coast are either ~4pm or a red eye. Because by the time the plane would get there the airports would be closed.

It's not as if there aren't strict limits on the corridors and angle of approach that planes have to take and it's why most airports vary the take-off and landing approaches - so as to not put all of the noise burden on one area. Not just because it makes life difficult and stressful but because it also seriously depresses property values and it's why you normally see warehouse or industrial uses (or open space) for most of the flight path below 5,000 ft. When the FAA changes routes or an airport expands capacity it has to pay for soundproofing because it diminishes the value of a property. It's called inverse condemnation.

The negative health effects of noise, especially the kind of noise that keeps you up at night, is well documented and indisputable. I don't understand why it's so difficult to have 6 hours of quiet time each night - especially in a suburban place like Sandy Springs.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:13 PM
 
2,373 posts, read 2,828,858 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I didn't even know that it was possible for an employee to face punishment for an action that he was doing under the company is working for. I always thought it was the employer who faced any penalty.
"I was just following orders" is not a legal defense . . . at least not since the Nuremberg Trials.

Your boss generally faces the penalty if the violation happens on company property and with explicit or implicit knowledge.

Your boss doesn't get the speeding ticket when you get caught doing 15 over in a company car.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:28 PM
 
2,373 posts, read 2,828,858 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
A lot of the early work prevents smelly, very noisy garbage trucks that stop at EVERY house AND business every ten feet. Want to follow THEM in the morning PLUS the school buses? Think about it. Like following the a$$ end of an elephant crossing your fingers that this isn't going to be "their moment"...for miles.....uh...no thanks.....
It's not something I have to worry about because the kids walk to school here and the garbage trucks don't hit the road until after 9am.

Quote:
Airports close late because that's when the demand dies. They are fully capable of working 24X7. Create a market outside of that window for more freight (read: Memphis/Fed Ex hub) and I'll show you jet engines blaring in your windows around the clock. It's all about scheduling and demand. Freight has it. Hard to get folks to get up and go jump on a plane at 2:00 AM but, believe me, if they could make money at it (freight), they would?
It's true - there are a few 24 hour passenger hubs but plenty of other airports have time/noise restrictions. Some places shut down their passenger terminals but keep freight going all night long. There's only one FedEx hub so not every city has or needs to have a cargo plane landing every 10 minutes all night long and Memphis also has at least one flight path that can have very minimal impacts on the surrounding urban area.
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