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Old 04-18-2015, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,857,230 times
Reputation: 3504

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afdinatl View Post
Someone said Gwinnett should operate it. Why on earth should a county that knows nothing about operating a rail system operate it when Marta has way more experience at this.
Why isn't MARTA operating the Atlanta Streetcar? If your logic applies, and I'm not saying it doesn't, why did the core political constituency of MARTA choose to explicitly NOT have MARTA operate a streetcar in the heart of downtown?
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,415 posts, read 3,812,886 times
Reputation: 2968
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Why isn't MARTA operating the Atlanta Streetcar? If your logic applies, and I'm not saying it doesn't, why did the core political constituency of MARTA choose to explicitly NOT have MARTA operate a streetcar in the heart of downtown?
Originally, it was due to cost:

Quote:
“It’s been over the last year that we pretty much determined that the best way to go about this is using a mechanism other than MARTA,” said Tom Weyandt, Reed’s senior transportation policy advisor.
He cited cost as the reason, saying the city would have had to pay for a pricey insurance policy that MARTA wasn't going to cover.
“It has to do with a whole set of cost structures…insurance that we would have to assume for a new service that MARTA could not accommodate under their existing rapid rail operation," said Weyandt.
He added the job of operating the streetcar system was put out to bid earlier this year. He said a private contractor would be selected in a matter of weeks.
Some transit advocates wonder why MARTA couldn't offer a more competitive proposal to operate the Streetcar, and attempt to gain a greater foothold in a system that the city and the Beltline clearly have ambitions to expand.
However, MARTA came into the fold back in May:
Quote:
The launch date of the Atlanta Streetcar is still several months out, but one of the last major steps for the project is now done. The city of Atlanta announced Monday it will operate the Streetcar, with some help from MARTA.
The Streetcar’s operator was an open question for months. City officials were considering outsourcing the job to a private contractor or MARTA.
Tim Borchers, the city’s Streetcar manager, is excited the city and MARTA will be working together.
“The city will be providing the majority of staff with MARTA oversight for the first 12 months. I think this is the best outcome for fiscal responsibility and safe operations that can be had,” said Borchers.
In December, a top official for Mayor Kasim Reed said MARTA wouldn’t be operating the Streetcar due to high insurance costs.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:18 AM
 
Location: O4W
3,744 posts, read 3,697,364 times
Reputation: 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Why isn't MARTA operating the Atlanta Streetcar? If your logic applies, and I'm not saying it doesn't, why did the core political constituency of MARTA choose to explicitly NOT have MARTA operate a streetcar in the heart of downtown?
My point is if I'm going to hire someone for a position I'm going to hire someone with over 30 years of experience verses 0 years.


With your other question Marta was built to operate buses and heavy rail, not streetcars.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,857,230 times
Reputation: 3504
Quote:
Originally Posted by afdinatl View Post
My point is if I'm going to hire someone for a position I'm going to hire someone with over 30 years of experience verses 0 years.


With your other question Marta was built to operate buses and heavy rail, not streetcars.
Right, so such an entity with 30 years of political connections, legislative savvy, and operating experience of transit in Atlanta is obviously the worst choice for a light rail project in the heart of the city. I get it.

It's fine when the COA does it, but Gwinnett would be crazy. Just pointing out the inconsistency, and let's not pretend that heavy and light rail are so different and unrelated that MARTA would be lost trying operate it.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,287 posts, read 17,466,055 times
Reputation: 5385
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Right, so such an entity with 30 years of political connections, legislative savvy, and operating experience of transit in Atlanta is obviously the worst choice for a light rail project in the heart of the city. I get it.

It's fine when the COA does it, but Gwinnett would be crazy. Just pointing out the inconsistency, and let's not pretend that heavy and light rail are so different and unrelated that MARTA would be lost trying operate it.
FTA required MARTA to oversee the beginning operation of the streetcar because they have rail transit experience. Once CoA has demonstrated they can safely operate it, FTA may allow streetcar operations without MARTA oversight.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,554 posts, read 3,026,217 times
Reputation: 2254
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Why isn't MARTA operating the Atlanta Streetcar? If your logic applies, and I'm not saying it doesn't, why did the core political constituency of MARTA choose to explicitly NOT have MARTA operate a streetcar in the heart of downtown?
The problem isn't in the 'Municipalities operating transit' aspect, but more along the lines of operating directly interfacing transit, i.e. heavy rail transit. Having a county run rail system which mimics, or copies MARTA's rail isn't inherently bad, it's just silly since you could, for the same, or less money to the county, extend MARTA rail.

The streetcars are a good example of different municipalities working together with different modes. It's the City of Atlanta doing the planning, funding, and work to build the system, along with Beltline Inc. doing the planning and work for the loop of light rail. Ultimatly, it will be the city who probably owns all the track, vehicles, right of way etc. (not sure if the city technically owns the Beltline, I think they do). In fact, MARTA IS operating the streetcar, until the FTA says that Atlanta knows enough to operate it on their own, and even then the two will work closely together, more than likely.

Your to go with your logic, it would be less like CoA building streetcars, and more like building a whole new set of subway trains, instead funding MARTA to build them. The fact of the matter is, MARTA will be involved with any rail transit in this region, as they are the defacto experts on the mode. The feds wouldn't approve funding without, at minimum, consultation and training oversight.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,209 posts, read 4,267,221 times
Reputation: 3011
Quote:
Originally Posted by afdinatl View Post
Great responses to the topic. It's good reading responses from people that actually know what they are talking about instead of just posting dumb shyt all the time
There actually is a decent amount of intelligence on the Atlanta forum.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:58 PM
 
Location: MMU->ABE->ATL->ASH
9,110 posts, read 17,065,068 times
Reputation: 9959
I pulled commuting data for Gwinnett, (2000, is most recent i could find)

57K of 306K commuter go to Fulton
51K go to DeKalb (But I seriously doubt most would use marta train do to the lenght of time it would take)
169K live and work within Gwinnett

Cobb come in @ 9K from Gwinnett

Rest are spread out with neighboring Counties in the in the low thousand of people, dropping as you get farther and father from Gwinnett.

There are 405k Voters in Gwinnett, you might get the Fulton Commuters and there SO's so maybe 75-100K votes (If everyone voted) But since turn out is lower it would be hard to get the sales tax passed since most of Gwinnett would have no use for MARTA, I could see Maybe Gwinnett "Building a Marta extension, and some cars" and pay fee to Marta to run the "Gwinnett" cars on its system,
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
5,259 posts, read 4,008,523 times
Reputation: 2794
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonpa View Post
I pulled commuting data for Gwinnett, (2000, is most recent i could find)

57K of 306K commuter go to Fulton
51K go to DeKalb (But I seriously doubt most would use marta train do to the lenght of time it would take)
169K live and work within Gwinnett

Cobb come in @ 9K from Gwinnett

Rest are spread out with neighboring Counties in the in the low thousand of people, dropping as you get farther and father from Gwinnett.

There are 405k Voters in Gwinnett, you might get the Fulton Commuters and there SO's so maybe 75-100K votes (If everyone voted) But since turn out is lower it would be hard to get the sales tax passed since most of Gwinnett would have no use for MARTA, I could see Maybe Gwinnett "Building a Marta extension, and some cars" and pay fee to Marta to run the "Gwinnett" cars on its system,
What about expanded intra-county transit? MARTA's first bus routes into Clayton are just about as expansive as C-TRANS was, and they're already going to add even more in August. Now go look at GCT's map and schedules. Even their best route, 10 (seriously, what is it with route *10s being the "best"? CCT 10, GCT 10, MARTA 110) has 1 hour headways most of the day, and 15 minute headways at best at rush hour. But it's 10A and B so really you're talking 2 hour and 30 minute headways respectively. Now look at the other routes. How exactly are they useful at all? At least 10A/B run reasonably straight, the others basically fold back on themsevles at multiple points.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,484 posts, read 1,607,389 times
Reputation: 1503
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Every city cannot have a member, but each county gets a fair representation based on population, Fulton gets less because majority of Atlanta is in Fulton.
You know some are stuck on thinking everywhere runs like Texas. This is not DART service area, where cities pick and choose if they want to be member...
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