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Old 05-09-2015, 11:39 AM
 
305 posts, read 231,097 times
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Parts of Gwinnett county are very dense. Cities like Norcorss and Duluth are pretty packed in. I think that Gwinnett needs a a light rail line first. One centralized rail station somewhere somewhere near Gwinnett Place Mall would probably be the best bet since there are rail lines that already run close by. Connect the line to the Dorravile station. This will alleviate a ton of congestion on I-85 during rush hour. After that you can start working on adding more lines.
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Old 05-09-2015, 02:47 PM
 
5,853 posts, read 5,193,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arc-lang View Post
Parts of Gwinnett county are very dense. Cities like Norcorss and Duluth are pretty packed in. I think that Gwinnett needs a a light rail line first. One centralized rail station somewhere somewhere near Gwinnett Place Mall would probably be the best bet since there are rail lines that already run close by. Connect the line to the Dorravile station. This will alleviate a ton of congestion on I-85 during rush hour. After that you can start working on adding more lines.
You make some excellent points that parts of Gwinnett County (like the I-85, Buford Hwy and PIB corridors) and very heavily developed and that attempting to alleviate congestion on I-85 (the largest and busiest highway in Gwinnett County) should be a top (if not the top) priority.

You also make an excellent suggestion that the Gwinnett Place Mall area would be a good location for a major rail transit station.

Here is a map of a late 2000's map of a Light Rail Transit line that was proposed to run from the MARTA Doraville Station up to the Gwinnett Center complex (Gwinnett Arena, arts and convention center) by way of the I-85 corridor:
http://www.gwinnettvillage.com/wp-co...compressed.jpg



And here is a link to a 2009 study by the Gwinnett Village and Gwinnett Place CIDs that was presented to the Georgia Department of Transportation Board in 2010:
http://www.dot.ga.gov/AboutGeorgia/B...ridorAug10.pdf

I completely agree that there absolutely needs to be some kind of high-capacity passenger rail transit service implemented along the I-85 corridor in the not-too-distant future (preferably years or decades ago).

Though, I disagree that Light Rail Transit would be the best mode of rail transit to serve the I-85 corridor at this point in time.

With Gwinnett County already having a population of about 900,000 people and quickly barreling towards the 1 million-inhabitant mark and with the county frequently experiencing severe traffic congestion during peak hours on a road network that is more extensive than most other Metro Atlanta counties but is still very limited in its capacity, I think that the county needs Heavy Rail Transit service along the I-85 corridor and at least along 2 other corridors (the PIB/Buford Highway corridor and the US 29 corridor).

I don't like the idea of transit users having to switch from Light Rail trains to Heavy Rail trains at Doraville to continue on into Atlanta.

High-capacity passenger rail transit service to Atlanta should be a one-seat ride on regional Heavy Rail trains from Gwinnett County all the way to the world's busiest airport (and the Atlanta's region's top employment center and #1 economic asset) at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

Providing direct high-frequency high-capacity passenger rail transit access (via Heavy Rail trains) between heavily-populated outlying areas like Gwinnett County and the Atlanta region's and the state of Georgia's #1 economic asset will be critically important to the future economic well-being and quality-of-life of the entire Atlanta region.

Even though there is a consensus amongst all but the most hardened anti-transit ideologues that there needs to be high-capacity passenger rail transit service in and along the I-85 corridor through Gwinnett County and that implementing that service along the I-85 corridor needs to be a priority, that does not mean that high-capacity transit cannot also be implemented through other areas where it is needed (like along the PIB/Buford Highway, US 29 and US 78 corridors) at about the same time that high-capacity transit service is being implemented in and along the all-important I-85 corridor.

High-capacity transit service is sorely needed in and along the often severely-congested I-85 corridor but it is also sorely needed along other corridors like along the PIB/Buford Highway/NS Railroad corridor and through the center of Gwinnett County along the US 29 corridor.

Fairfax County, Virginia is a mega-suburb of Washington D.C. that is somewhat similar in size and population to Atlanta's mega-suburb of Gwinnett County.

Like Gwinnett County, Georgia is expected to do within the next 10-15 years or so, Fairfax County, Virginia's population eclipsed the 1 million mark back during the decade of the 2000's.

Unlike Gwinnett County, GA which currently has NO rail transit lines despite having a population of nearly 900,000 people and increasingly severe traffic congestion problems during peak hours, Fairfax County, Virginia has SIX rail transit lines.

Fairfax County, VA has FOUR regional Heavy Rail Transit lines (courtesy of the Washington Metro HRT system) and TWO regional commuter rail lines (courtesy of the State of Virginia-operated Virginia Railway Express).

Gwinnett County, GA currently only has a very limited amount of rush hour commuter bus service and some barebones local bus service.

With an outlying county like Gwinnett poised to eclipse the 1 million-inhabitant mark in the not-too-distant future and with the population of the already very severely congested and road infrastructure-limited Atlanta metro region expected to continue to grow into the 8-10 million range, it is way beyond time (like decades beyond time) that this region fully embrace the highly-viable and highly-valuable high-capacity transit system that it already has in MARTA.

It is completely ridiculous that we are sitting here in 2015 talking about building Light Rail Transit extensions through very heavily populated areas at the end of the rail lines a perfectly viable (and very valuable) HRT system that was intended to be a regional HRT system.
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Old 05-09-2015, 04:18 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
5,104 posts, read 3,614,221 times
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Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
It is completely ridiculous that we are sitting here in 2015 talking about building Light Rail Transit extensions through very heavily populated areas at the end of the rail lines a perfectly viable (and very valuable) HRT system that was intended to be a regional HRT system.
Because most people don't know jack s**t about transit planning and think cheaper is the way to go. Morons.
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Old 05-09-2015, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Just outside of McDonough, Georgia
1,047 posts, read 822,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Because most people don't know jack s**t about transit planning and think cheaper is the way to go. Morons.
I think it's because the uninformed only look at the per mile cost. Sure, going by just that metric, HRT is the most expensive, but after you add in the cost of new cars (LRT), new maintenance facilities, longer average trip times, the subsequent loss of choice riders because of transfers (never underestimate the power of the "one-seat ride")...is it really worth it to hop for LRT over HRT?

While I'm therefore glad that MARTA sprung for HRT on GA 400, I still hope that they'll finalize HRT for both I-20 East and the Clifton Corridor.

- skbl17
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Old 05-09-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: I-20 from Atlanta to Augusta
1,312 posts, read 1,451,265 times
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I would use Hwy 13 (Buford Hwy) as the main transit corridor. It already has an established railway and is far enough from I-85 to not cause to many problems. I would shoot the MARTA line straight up that corridor and have a separate line that branches off and heads east in the median of Ga 316. That would provide rail service for 70% of Gwinnett county.
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Old 05-09-2015, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,363 posts, read 1,506,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Some good thoughts from ATL Urbanist:

Could MARTA serve Gwinnett County



Gwinnett as a county does have respectable density numbers, higher than other counties that house core southern cities. But that just goes to show how one number can't tell you everything. It lacks urban nodes. Transit will never be able to serve sprawl well. But I do think think some sort of rail connection, at least a commuter rail line. Could do a lot to help Gwinnett develop urban nodes and stay competitive. We don't need a subway stop at every cul de sac in suburbaia, but we should have urban nodes with transit connections available for people to make that choice.
Here's the funny thing, Gwinnett is the smallest in land area of the comparable in population counties (Mecklenburg, Wake, and Davidson). Hence, why its density is much higher than these core counties of other major Southern metro areas. I knew there was something fishy about these density scores and that is why. It's quite easy for a place with a smaller land area to have a higher density than other areas with more land because it forces more people to be packed within a (smaller) specific area.

Last edited by jero23; 05-09-2015 at 08:08 PM..
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Old 05-09-2015, 09:18 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,001,029 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Here's the funny thing, Gwinnett is the smallest in land area of the comparable in population counties (Mecklenburg, Wake, and Davidson). Hence, why its density is much higher than these core counties of other major Southern metro areas. I knew there was something fishy about these density scores and that is why. It's quite easy for a place with a smaller land area to have a higher density than other areas with more land because it forces more people to be packed within a (smaller) specific area.
No different than New Jersey being the most dense state in the country, with almost nine million people packed into over 8,700 square miles.
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:08 AM
 
Location: ATL -> HOU -> DAL
4,218 posts, read 3,355,787 times
Reputation: 3260
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden eagles fan View Post
No different than New Jersey being the most dense state in the country, with almost nine million people packed into over 8,700 square miles.
The amazing part is that it's basically just suburbs of Philly and NYC then a little bit of country side.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,787 posts, read 16,795,176 times
Reputation: 5133
Quote:
Originally Posted by skbl17 View Post
I think it's because the uninformed only look at the per mile cost. Sure, going by just that metric, HRT is the most expensive, but after you add in the cost of new cars (LRT), new maintenance facilities, longer average trip times, the subsequent loss of choice riders because of transfers (never underestimate the power of the "one-seat ride")...is it really worth it to hop for LRT over HRT?

While I'm therefore glad that MARTA sprung for HRT on GA 400, I still hope that they'll finalize HRT for both I-20 East and the Clifton Corridor.

- skbl17
HRT has been voted on and approved by MARTA board for the extension east of Indian Creek, while BRT ITP to downtown. There could still be hope for Clifton Corridor, but local residents preferred LRT.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,787 posts, read 16,795,176 times
Reputation: 5133
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Here's the funny thing, Gwinnett is the smallest in land area of the comparable in population counties (Mecklenburg, Wake, and Davidson). Hence, why its density is much higher than these core counties of other major Southern metro areas. I knew there was something fishy about these density scores and that is why. It's quite easy for a place with a smaller land area to have a higher density than other areas with more land because it forces more people to be packed within a (smaller) specific area.
That's still doesn't take away from the fact that those listed counties are for the most part the CBD of their metros.
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