The real story behind America's streetcar demise (Savannah: live, price)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by shunketsu

Excellent posts. Most Americans are spoiled and don't realize the true cost of driving. It's like all that wonderful, cheap (for the time) cotton that used to be produced in the Southern U.S... except customers weren't paying the full psychic, social, and moral costs of the cotton production (slave labor).

They may not realize the true cost of biking or public transit either. The cost of MARTA, for instance, is a whole lot more than $2.75 a ride.

I say boil down the costs of all modes of transportation so that we can compare apples to apples.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

They may not realize the true cost of biking or public transit either. The cost of MARTA, for instance, is a whole lot more than $2.75 a ride.

I say boil down the costs of all modes of transportation so that we can compare apples to apples.

Its only $2.50 for a one way trip. Biking is free, it cost the rider food to be turned into energy.

[Tryska]

I think the lesson I've learned from the article though, is to ensure all my long-term contracts are indexed to inflation rates.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Biking is free, it cost the rider food to be turned into energy.

Who pays for the roads they ride on?

[shunketsu]

Originally Posted by arjay57

They may not realize the true cost of biking or public transit either. The cost of MARTA, for instance, is a whole lot more than $2.75 a ride.

I say boil down the costs of all modes of transportation so that we can compare apples to apples.

Excellent post; actually this is a very good idea. When you do this comparison, walking, biking, and transit wins. Cars and oil production have huge costs (remember Shell Oil in Nigeria and how upsetting that situation was--not to mention Ecuador?) and yes, transit is subsidized, but the overall energy, environmental, social, psychological, health, monetary, and opportunity costs of transit do not add up to as much as car dependence.

Originally Posted by cqholt

Its only $2.50 for a one way trip. Biking is free, it cost the rider food to be turned into energy.

Plus, biking and walking have health benefits. Meanwhile, driving all the time has negative health consequences for those who are car dependent (and also for those who aren't car dependent through increased air pollution and car emissions).

Originally Posted by arjay57

Who pays for the roads they ride on?

Basic economics dictates that roads and transit are public goods, therefore they should be paid for through taxes. Almost universal car dependence, and unsafe conditions that make biking dangerous, aren't public goods.

Economically speaking, cars should be used up to the point where the Marginal Social Benefit (MSB) equals the Marginal Social Cost (MSC). However, right now due to externalities and subsidies, car use is at a point where MSC is higher than MSB, which is not good. The cost to society *in the long-term, big picture* is higher than the benefit.

Transit, biking, and walking should be used up to the point where the MSB equals the MSC, but are being used at a point where MSB is still higher than MSC. This means that there is untapped potential in these modes of transportation that is being wasted, which is a deadweight loss.

[shunketsu]

Car Dependence Economics:




Transit, Biking, and Walking Economics:




In both cases the colored triangle represents the deadweight loss, or loss of economic efficiency.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Who pays for the roads they ride on?

Usually the cyclists because if they own they pay property taxes, or if they rent, then the owner pays property tax.

[cqholt]

Plus, biking and walking have health benefits. Meanwhile, driving all the time has negative health consequences for those who are car dependent (and also for those who aren't car dependent through increased air pollution and car emissions).

No one ever lost weight commuting to work in car.

[Tryska]

It's also a bit socially crippling I think. Car-dependence. There is an entirely different culture in areas where walking everywhere are the norm. people know how to interact with strangers much more easily. That's something that really struck me about moving here from NYC. I finally figured out, it was the cars.

[shunketsu]

Originally Posted by cqholt

No one ever lost weight commuting to work in car.

Originally Posted by Tryska

It's also a bit socially crippling I think. Car-dependence. There is an entirely different culture in areas where walking everywhere are the norm. people know how to interact with strangers much more easily. That's something that really struck me about moving here from NYC. I finally figured out, it was the cars.

Agreed with both of these posts.