Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Gwinnett doesn't strike me as anywhere near similar to South Fulton, and doesn't seem to be headed toward it either.
Gwinnett as a whole is not going to be the next S. Fulton, but the U.S. 78 corridor going east appears to be heading toward being majority black similar to the Stone Mountain area.
Historically, in Metro Atlanta, the pattern of neighborhoods has been that when an area experiences racial transition and then the neighborhoods to its borders will experience the same transition. This occurs over time and appears as a wave.
To get a comprehensive history of the pattern of how different areas of Atlanta experienced transition, I suggest Kevin Kruse's book, "White Flight Atlanta" in which he chronicles the period beginning in 1945 through the 1960's and the decisions City of Atlanta elected officials made during this time which led to the large white flight which occurred. The Southwest Atlanta Mutual Development Corporation is a controversial effort which Mayor Hartsfield created to keep stable white areas while at the same time allowing for blacks to have housing opportunities - as we can see, the final result was that Southwest Atlanta became over 90% black despite the City's efforts.
On the east side of Atlanta, the decision to construct the East Lake Meadows Public Housing Complex was the initial catalyst in the white flight which occurred in the South DeKalb area which continued east to Stone Mountain and beyond.
Back to the O.P. the S. Fulton and S. DeKalb areas are not attractive to families of any race because of the ratings of the neighborhood schools. African American families who have the means will choose to move to areas with better ratings. This begs the question, why would Asians, Hispanics or whites who can afford to move to other school districts do any differently? Do people honestly think that families - whether they are black, Hispanic, Asian or white, will make a decision about where they will live giving greater priority to increasing the "Diversity index" of the community over the academic ratings of the local schools?
I have a good friend who is a captain in the Fulton County BOE Police Department assigned to the South Fulton zone. The claim that schools in north and south Fulton are "equal " in any way other than facilities-wise is an absolute lie. The schools in South Fulton are horrible, overrun with gangs and house the absolute worst of the worst demographically. Any family -- blacks included -- that lives in South Fulton and has the means to send their kids to private schools does so. There are many white families living in the Chattahoochee Hills area of South Fulton but you will be hard pressed to find ONE white child enrolled in a public school down there. It is simply not an option.
Further, I have another friend who is white and married to a black woman. They have 5 children. He teaches at one of the South Fulton high schools. Last year, they moved to Peachtree City just to get their kids out of South Fulton schools and into Fayette County schools. And he still teaches in South Fulton!
If someone can please explain to me why majority black schools have to be so horrible, I'd really like to hear it.
I have a good friend who is a captain in the Fulton County BOE Police Department assigned to the South Fulton zone. The claim that schools in north and south Fulton are "equal " in any way other than facilities-wise is an absolute lie. The schools in South Fulton are horrible, overrun with gangs and house the absolute worst of the worst demographically. Any family -- blacks included -- that lives in South Fulton and has the means to send their kids to private schools does so. There are many white families living in the Chattahoochee Hills area of South Fulton but you will be hard pressed to find ONE white child enrolled in a public school down there. It is simply not an option.
Further, I have another friend who is white and married to a black woman. They have 5 children. He teaches at one of the South Fulton high schools. Last year, they moved to Peachtree City just to get their kids out of South Fulton schools and into Fayette County schools. And he still teaches in South Fulton!
If someone can please explain to me why majority black schools have to be so horrible, I'd really like to hear it.
This isn't always true. Let's take Westlake High for example. I haven't heard a single person say anything bad about it. But the demographics show that there are lots of upper middle class blacks. It's not Black schools that are bad, it's schools in poor neighborhoods. The question we should be asking is how we can make these poor kids interested in education despite their conditions at home.
I suggest the book Not in my Neighborhood by Antero Pietila. Doesn't talk specifically about Atlanta but similar things happened in Atlanta and other cities across the South.
Gwinnett as a whole is not going to be the next S. Fulton, but the U.S. 78 corridor going east appears to be heading toward being majority black similar to the Stone Mountain area.
Historically, in Metro Atlanta, the pattern of neighborhoods has been that when an area experiences racial transition and then the neighborhoods to its borders will experience the same transition. This occurs over time and appears as a wave.
To get a comprehensive history of the pattern of how different areas of Atlanta experienced transition, I suggest Kevin Kruse's book, "White Flight Atlanta" in which he chronicles the period beginning in 1945 through the 1960's and the decisions City of Atlanta elected officials made during this time which led to the large white flight which occurred. The Southwest Atlanta Mutual Development Corporation is a controversial effort which Mayor Hartsfield created to keep stable white areas while at the same time allowing for blacks to have housing opportunities - as we can see, the final result was that Southwest Atlanta became over 90% black despite the City's efforts.
On the east side of Atlanta, the decision to construct the East Lake Meadows Public Housing Complex was the initial catalyst in the white flight which occurred in the South DeKalb area which continued east to Stone Mountain and beyond.
Back to the O.P. the S. Fulton and S. DeKalb areas are not attractive to families of any race because of the ratings of the neighborhood schools. African American families who have the means will choose to move to areas with better ratings. This begs the question, why would Asians, Hispanics or whites who can afford to move to other school districts do any differently? Do people honestly think that families - whether they are black, Hispanic, Asian or white, will make a decision about where they will live giving greater priority to increasing the "Diversity index" of the community over the academic ratings of the local schools?
Disagree, there are plenty of families in S.Fulton who can afford better that choose to stay in that area and send their kids to APS. A number of members of my church stay in 250K-500K homes off Cascade rd who send their kids to either Westlake, Mays, or Douglas. And they have plenty of money and very smart kids. I'd venture to say that S. Fulton and DeKalb County is where most blacks move for a better life than where they came from.
This isn't always true. Let's take Westlake High for example. I haven't heard a single person say anything bad about it. But the demographics show that there are lots of upper middle class blacks. It's not Black schools that are bad, it's schools in poor neighborhoods. The question we should be asking is how we can make these poor kids interested in education despite their conditions at home.
And then you have Langston Hughes, which has a campus as nice as Milton, Alpharetta or Johns Creek and is surrounded by real estate nearly as exclusive (Chattahochee Hills). Yet nearly the entire student body is made up of poor black kids bused down from apartment complexes in Union City. This information comes from my friend who is a police captain for Fulton BOE.
In his own words: "When I worked in North Fulton, our biggest worry was what to eat for lunch. In South Fulton, we don't even have time for lunch." These are SCHOOL police keep in mind. They, more than anybody else, know what's really going on with these kids. And he has no reason to lie. Exaggerate maybe, but not out and out make stuff up.
And then you have Langston Hughes, which has a campus as nice as Milton, Alpharetta or Johns Creek and is surrounded by real estate nearly as exclusive (Chattahochee Hills). Yet nearly the entire student body is made up of poor black kids bused down from apartment complexes in Union City. This information comes from my friend who is a police captain for Fulton BOE.
In his own words: "When I worked in North Fulton, our biggest worry was what to eat for lunch. In South Fulton, we don't even have time for lunch." These are SCHOOL police keep in mind. They, more than anybody else, know what's really going on with these kids. And he has no reason to lie. Exaggerate maybe, but not out and out make stuff up.
Like i said poor kids do worse than rich kids do. (Btw, All Fulton County high schools look the same to me, but the administration in these schools could be a reason why some perform bad.)
And then you have Langston Hughes, which has a campus as nice as Milton, Alpharetta or Johns Creek
Just a Random question for anyone- Why does the north Fulton school look so unique and expensive, but the south Fulton ones (Westlake, Banneker, Hughes) are just copies of each other?
This isn't always true. Let's take Westlake High for example. I haven't heard a single person say anything bad about it. But the demographics show that there are lots of upper middle class blacks. It's not Black schools that are bad, it's schools in poor neighborhoods. The question we should be asking is how we can make these poor kids interested in education despite their conditions at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry X
Disagree, there are plenty of families in S.Fulton who can afford better that choose to stay in that area and send their kids to APS. A number of members of my church stay in 250K-500K homes off Cascade rd who send their kids to either Westlake, Mays, or Douglas. And they have plenty of money and very smart kids. I'd venture to say that S. Fulton and DeKalb County is where most blacks move for a better life than where they came from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4
Like i said poor kids do worse than rich kids do. (Btw, All Fulton County high schools look the same to me, but the administration in these schools could be a reason why some perform bad.)
I just don't understand why these areas aren't more diverse. They're nice areas in both counties, and they're pretty affordable. What's keeping other races from moving there?
What is probably keeping South Fulton and South DeKalb counties from being more popular with other races is (like other posters have stated) the perception that the schools are not as good in South Fulton and South DeKalb counties as they might be in other areas.
Another major factor that is likely keeping South Fulton and South DeKalb from being more popular with other races is the perception that crime is higher in those areas than it is in other areas.
In the big picture, a major reason why South Fulton and South DeKalb are not more diverse likely has to do with the overall continuing development patterns of the Atlanta metro region.
On the south side of the Atlanta region, development patterns and robust development activity has 'leap-frogged' beyond closer-in suburban areas like South Fulton and South DeKalb (and Clayton County) to further-out areas like Coweta, Fayette and Henry counties.
While for the Atlanta metro region as a whole, development patterns and development activity tends to favor the north side of the region and has done so for decades because of the presence of the better access to water supply (lakes Allatoona and Lanier) for development and recreational purposes on the Northside.
The presence of the major manmade lakes on the Northside has meant that the north side of the region while also being a magnet for a much more intense amount of residential development has also been a much more intense magnet for commercial development and employment opportunities....Something which means that there are many more jobs on the Northside then there are on the Southside.
The presence of more jobs and employment opportunities and more amenities (retail/shopping, restaurants, recreational opportunities, etc) has meant that the Northside has been able to draw a much more affluent and much more diverse population than the Southside which does not necessarily have as many amenities as the Northside.
Along with the presence of lakes Allatoona and Lanier on the Northside, the layout of Atlanta's regional road network has also contributed to the development imbalance between the Northside and the Southside which has contributed to less diversity throughout many parts of the Southside.
The north side of the Atlanta region above the I-20 has more highway spokes radiating out from the city than the south side of the region does.
The north side of the Atlanta region has major highways like US 278 (GA 6), US 41, I-75, I-575, GA 400, GA 141, GA 13 (Buford Hwy), I-85, I-985, GA 316, US 29 and US 78 East radiating out from the city while the south side of the region only has I-20 West, I-85, GA 85, US 19-41, GA 54, I-75 and I-20 East radiating out from the city.
The number of major highways radiating out from the center of the region is an important factor because development patterns and population growth has followed major highways. The Northside has more major highways for development patterns to follow so it has had more development than the Southside.
In addition to the presence of the large manmade lakes and more highway spokes on the Northside there is also the presence of the Blue Ridge and the Appalachian mountain ranges north of the city and their foothills on the north side of the region.
Almost immediately after World War II, real estate developers began to intentionally aim metro Atlanta's long-term development patterns towards lakes Allatoona and Lanier and the foothills and mountain ranges beyond them with the long-term development of such future developmental highways as I-575, GA 400 and I-985....Developmental roads that have served their purpose of guiding metro Atlanta's development patterns towards the Blue Ridge/Appalachian mountains north of the city.
Close distances to lakes Allatoona and Lanier and the Blue Ridge Mountains have been major selling points for new real estate developments on the Northside for several decades.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
