Seattle's missed opportunity is Atlanta's MARTA. (Decatur, Douglas: bus, transport, money)

[fourthwarden]

Atlanta nabbed Seattle’s subway, but did we learn from their mistake?

A Seattle TV station just did a big takeout on how Atlantans in 1968 voted to approve a sales tax to fund MARTA and got $900 million as a federal match.

That money could just as easily have gone to Seattle, the story said, which had also been seeking a federal match to start a subway. (Incidentally, $900 million back then is equivalent to more than $5 billion in 2015 dollars). But Seattle voters rejected the regional bonds necessary to fund its rail plan.

Fast forward four decades or so, and Atlanta has a system that transports nearly a quarter million riders every day and they don’t. Not only that, MARTA generates at least $2.6 billion annually in economic activity and supports roughly 24,000 jobs statewide, according to a 2013 study by University of Georgia’s Carl Vinson Institute.

There’s another way to look at this scenario. Atlanta has already lost out on federal dollars by failing to lay the groundwork for intercity rail back when the Obama administration was handing out stimulus money.

Atlanta also missed the boat in the early 1990s, when the Federal Railroad Administration had money set aside to encourage the development of intermodal stations (transportation hubs that marry bus, intercity rail and commuter rail service). About 130 cities applied for the grants; Atlanta didn’t.

As a result, plans for “The Gulch,” a dilapidated area of downtown Atlanta where a multi-modal station has long been envisioned, still sit idle.

Will Atlanta catch the next train toward future transit development, so-to-speak?

We’ll find out soon enough. MARTA wants to lobby the state Legislature in 2016 to allow voters in the counties it serves to approve an additional half-penny sales tax that could fund $4 billion in improvements. Transit agency board chairman Robbie Ashe has said that money could be leveraged to get a federal match of another $4 billion.

That amount of money would be enough to expand heavy rail north to Windward Parkway in Alpharetta, east to Stonecrest Mall and to install a light rail tram system to connect the Lindbergh and Avondale MARTA stations through the busy CDC-Emory-Decatur corridor. It might even be enough to help fund a light-rail system along the Beltline, Ashe said.

Or, that money could jump-start another city’s transit boon. Some metro Atlantans would prefer it that way. They point out rightly that the federal money doesn’t come free – local taxpayers to pony up a sizable chunk. They think investment in transit is a black hole, and that pouring more money into it is throwing good money after bad.

They might be right. But ask Seattle how well spurning transit worked out for them. Or better yet, let’s look at what the Seattle story concluded:

It’s probably too late for Seattle to ever build the kind of subway system Atlanta has–there’s too much development in the way and the federal government isn’t handing out transit money like it once did.

But the man who runs MARTA believes Seattle is doing the right thing by expanding light rail and upping bus service, instead of mourning what it missed.

[cwkimbro]

The biggest ball dropped was not using the funds to start up commuter service going South. It would have been 80-90% paid for and allowed us to have some type of a better working relationship with NS, for better or worse. It would have served the currently planned Clayton Co. corridor and gotten us much closer to starting service to Macon.

The biggest complaint was federal funding didn't fund operations, just capital. Georgia would have been required to carry the operational subsidy for a 10 year minimum.

But... one thing I'm sort of learning is every place has this story. Every place has the what-if. All growing cities create a bunch of plans and they don't go with them all. While I feel we need to do more, I also think we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves or on Seattle either. What they don't fund one decade leads to funding for something else bigger later.


I do have one serious question. The funding pool for MARTA from the federal government also funded the DC Metro, Baltimore's line, The Miami metrorail, and SF's BART.

Does anyone actually have confirmation that Atlanta's increase in funding came directly from Seattle's rejection? Or could any city have applied for the funding from the same pool and they just chose not to along with many others? Would those funds have been directly out of just Atlanta's share or the whole pool of funding that affected 5 cities in a big way?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

The biggest ball dropped was not using the funds to start up commuter service going South. It would have been 80-90% paid for and allowed us to have some type of a better working relationship with NS, for better or worse. It would have served the currently planned Clayton Co. corridor and gotten us much closer to starting service to Macon.

The biggest complaint was federal funding didn't fund operations, just capital. Georgia would have been required to carry the operational subsidy for a 10 year minimum.

But... one thing I'm sort of learning is every place has this story. Every place has the what-if. All growing cities create a bunch of plans and they don't go with them all. While I feel we need to do more, I also think we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves or on Seattle either. What they don't fund one decade leads to funding for something else bigger later.


I do have one serious question. The funding pool for MARTA from the federal government also funded the DC Metro, Baltimore's line, The Miami metrorail, and SF's BART.

Does anyone actually have confirmation that Atlanta's increase in funding came directly from Seattle's rejection? Or could any city have applied for the funding from the same pool and they just chose not to along with many others? Would those funds have been directly out of just Atlanta's share or the whole pool of funding that affected 5 cities in a big way?

I've looked for the articles without success. I'm sure I could find it with a little more time. But basically, the federal government decided to fund two demonstration rail projects. Seattle was one. When they backed out, Atlanta volunteered.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

I've looked for the articles without success. I'm sure I could find it with a little more time. But basically, the federal government decided to fund two demonstration rail projects. Seattle was one. When they backed out, Atlanta volunteered.

Atlanta was able to pass the sales tax needed for the local match.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Atlanta was able to pass the sales tax needed for the local match.

Although popular support for MARTA has never been exactly overwhelming.

When MARTA first came up for a vote in 1968 it was soundly rejected by all the metro counties and the city of Atlanta. In the city the vote was 53,660 (58%) against, and only 38,675 (42%) in favor.

Even in the 1972 referendum MARTA barely squeaked by with 51% in Fulton and 52% in DeKalb. If I'm not mistaken the approval vote in the city proper was only 55%.

If the vote were taken again today I wonder how MARTA would do?

[skbl17]

Originally Posted by arjay57

If the vote were taken again today I wonder how MARTA would do?

Blind guesses, but if MARTA was on the ballot in today's traffic and prevailing economic conditions, it would overwhelmingly pass in the City of Atlanta, Fulton (though you would likely see a bit less support in North Fulton,) Clayton, and DeKalb. Gwinnett would also vote yes, but not overwhelmingly...it would probably be closer to the 1971 CoA numbers if anything.

Rockdale could be a dark horse, as would Douglas...if given the chance. Cherokee, Forsyth, Paulding, Walton, Newton, and Fayette would all overwhelmingly vote no...again, if given the chance. Henry would vote no...if given the chance.

Cobb...actually, Cobb would be very interesting, even moreso than Gwinnett. It's very much a county that is on the fence, but largely along geographic lines; in a hypothetical referendum on MARTA membership, I think the strongest "yes" votes would be concentrated in southeast Cobb (Smyrna/Vinings/Cumberland, maybe up to the City of Marietta) and south Cobb (Six Flags up to the Mableton CDP). The strongest "no" votes would likely be concentrated in north and east Cobb (minus KSU), along with far west Cobb near the Paulding County border. That's pretty darn close, so much so that I don't feel comfortable saying how Cobb would vote one way or another.

What I do know is that Cobb, should it reject MARTA again, wouldn't do so on a margin anywhere near the 1965 numbers. The county has grown and diversified significantly in the last five decades, bringing the good (more economic and political clout) and the bad (extreme traffic congestion); it's not the same hyper-rural county that said "no" back in 1965. Plus, one of the biggest factors behind the 1965, 1968, and 1971 votes, race, doesn't hold anywhere near the same importance as it did back then.

- skbl17

[arjay57]

My guess is that a MARTA vote would be similar to the results on the 2012 TSPLOST, which went down in flames.

That was only for 10 years and it included roads as well as mass transit. However, we are in an anti-tax environment these days and a lot of people aren't willing to have 1% carved out of their hide. A lot of folks also have major issues with trusting the government to be a wise steward of their money.

With a few exceptions, metro Atlanta voters did not like the idea at all. Cobb, Fayette, Gwinnett and North fulton were strongly against it. Big chunks of Henry, Douglas, DeKalb, south Fulton and Clayton were agin it as well.

[jsvh]

arjay - You forget 2012 TSPLOST was mostly roads. I would vote against it again if I had the chance.

Heck Clayton rejected TSPLOST too but just voted in favor of MARTA by a crushing 74% so obviously 2012 TSPLOST is not a proxy for MARTA.

If a MARTA vote were up today I would expect a similar win in Fulton or CoA.

[Mutiny77]

SPLOST was all over the place in terms of transit and transportation projects; no way would it comparable to a MARTA vote.

[arjay57]

Many people feel like they are up to their necks in taxes and they don't trust government to be a wise steward of their money.

The TSPLOST vote reflects that in the context of transportation.