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Ok, so I have read through one or two recent posts, and some of those from Atlanta have stated that the OP's tend to leave too little information, so please excuse me if this is a bit wordy.
My wife and I are planning a move in two years or less (depending on when we get done with graduate school). For those that are saying "that's a bit too far away to plan such an endeavor," well, the reason for the lengthy plan is that our last move was rather impromptu and FOOLISHLY based on what all of the "best of" articles out there have stated, as opposed to hearing is from real residents. Big mistake, as we have been regretting the move to Pittsburgh for three years now.
Long story short, I have a few threads out there to other cities we have been considering trying to find out which is best, and where in that city is best.
We are looking for culture and acceptance, first and foremost. We are a mixed ethnicity family (white and Filipina) made up of my wife, myself and our two daughters (currently 6 months and the other three and a half years). We have collectively lived and worked in primarily mexican areas, black areas, native american areas, etc. Culture is going to be pretty important to us. Not that we need our neighborhood to be an Epcot center, but we are looking for a city that we can experience, and show our daughters, culture from all over. Unfortunately Pittsburgh is, for the most part, white wealthy suburbs, poor black cities pockets and most of the ethnic culture comes from college students. To put it another way, in a major metro area of over 2 million, we have only found 2 asian grocery stores and one mexican grocer. I've been told that Atlanta is a cultural mecca that also has a huge lgbt population which is a plus.
Other reasons we are fed up here. The general closed mindedness. Yes, Pittsburgh is liberal RELATIVE TO THE AREA, but the area is Western PA which is mostly rural, and West Virginia. So there is that. We are looking for somewhere that is more open minded and accepting of outsiders. We have been verbally assaulted numerous times for wearing clothing that is not Pittsburgh related, we have seen people get booed out of establishments while with their children because they had a jersey that wasn't Steelers. There's representing your city .... and then there's unhealthy obsession.
People here, while nice in comparison to Philly and NYC, are generally not nice. They seem hesitant to strike conversations with strangers and if you say hi to a random person walking down the street they either look pissed or afraid.
The list goes on.
We are also looking for an area with weather that allows us to be active year round (the smog in Atlanta being one of the few things driving us away). I know it gets hot and humid, but I feel as long as we are able to live in an area that allows us to have an above ground pool, we should have no problems.
We also, being that we lived in Alaska, are nature lovers. Trails, mountains, rivers and FARMERS MARKETS are a necessity.
So basically, we are looking for a young neighborhood within 45 minutes of the city, relatively safe and not cookie cutter. We would like to own a home (not condo or townhome) that has at least 3 bedrooms and a decent backyard. A community feel is important to us, as our neighborhood now is mostly shut ins and it makes everything feel cold. We want neighbors that will at least say hello when people are outside. An area where there are typically a lot of children is going to be important. Our budget is under $300k.
Also, we are teachers. I will have a masters in special education, and my wife in English Language Learning. We are currently learning Spanish and plan to be proficient by the time we leave. Working in inner city is actually somewhat preferred. I currently work for an inner city charter school with a 99% black population. I love my job, and have worked in an all white suburb school and found it kind of meh. Given this, how are the job prospects in Atlanta?
Pittsburgh is currently listed as the most difficult job market for teachers in the country ...... so at a minimum, it has to be better.
Any ideas on great neighborhoods, things to do as a family, or is Atlanta right for us?
I will close by saying, as I have in other posts, If you live in PGH and love it there, that's awesome. I'm not here to change anyone's minds, so don't try to change mine. Just live your life in the city you love and call it a day without the internet forum trolling.
a couple of quick thoughts. It is way too early to be trying to figure much of this out. Neighborhoods that are in your price range today could or could not be tomorrow.
Keep in mind that GA is a right to work state. Our teachers are not unionized and make less than they do in the NE. Tenure doesn't exist (on paper anyway) and job protections are fewer. You might want to compare salaries (and measure the impact on pensions etc) before making a final decision.
With your credentials, if the economy continues its up tick, you should be fine employment wise. Unlikely that you could necessarily pick your schools, but there will be openings. Special ed is more a given than ELL (because here is ELL is a certificate added to a primary or secondary degree) but both of you should be ok. Unless the economy slows, and teaching hiring reverts back to levels from a couple of years ago. That said, you should still be employable even if she has a slightly harder time. The tricky thing will be managing the job hunting process since our systems are on a very different schedule than yours. We start school early August finish at Memorial Day.
I think you have a pretty good chance at being hired. Significant hispanic population in the schools and knowing spanish will be great. Also, special education is always in demand. Teachers don't necessarily have it great in Georgia, but many make it work. No teachers union or anything like that but COL is lower (well, not sure how it compares to Pitt). The I 85 corridor is probably the most diverse in the Atlanta metro. You can get some really good and really diverse schools in Gwinnett. Here the best schools aren't necessarily the whitest. I'd try to test the job waters before closing in on a location to live. Definitely don't want a job in Gwinnett while living inCobb
You would like living in the Atlanta metro area. Metro Atlanta is a large major metro area of about 5.5 million with an extremely diverse and extremely transient population of residents who come from all over the country and all over the world.
Because of your diverse background and your wife's Asian heritage, the first place that you will likely be directed to look for employment and housing will be Gwinnett County, which is a county with an increasingly extremely diverse population, an affordable high-quality housing stock and excellent schools.
Racial and ethnic minorities made up over 58% of Gwinnett County's population as of 2013.
...Blacks made up more than 26%, Asians made up more than 11% and Hispanics/Latinos made up more than 20% of Gwinnett County's population as of 2013....So you and your family should have no problem finding grocery stores, retail stores and business establishments that cater to and serve the needs of the Asian and Hispanic/Latino populations in Gwinnett County or in Northeast Metro Atlanta (including in North Fulton and North DeKalb counties as well).
Gwinnett County, with a current population of about 878,000 residents that is expected to reach 1 million residents in the not-too-distant future, is also home to the largest school system in the state of Georgia with an enrollment of over 173,000 students.
GCPS (Gwinnett County Public Schools) is a perennially fast-growing school system that always seems to be adding new schools and always seems to be hiring new teachers and educators because of the explosive population growth and natural turnover in personnel in such a large urban/suburban county.
GCPS is generally an extremely well-run large urban-suburban school system and has been recognized for its excellence in urban education by twice being awarded the Broad Prize for Urban Education in 2010 and 2014. Home Page - The Broad Prize for Urban Education
Gwinnett County is most likely the first place you should look for employment and housing based on these conditions.
Other areas that should probably be near the top of your list for employment and housing are in the ultra-diverse North Fulton County (Sandy Springs) and North DeKalb County (Doraville/Chamblee) areas.
(...The schools are generally run extremely well in North Fulton County while in North DeKalb County you will find some excellent urban schools in a county school system (DeKalb County Schools) that has had some problems with ethics and competency in management in recent years.)
You could also checkout other urban areas like:
> The City of Atlanta (Atlanta Public Schools) (...look in the City of Atlanta for employment purposes only...the home prices are kind of relatively higher here and may be beyond your budget of $300k in many areas, plus the Asian and Hispanic/Latino populations are not as large here as they are in Gwinnett, North DeKalb and North Fulton counties)...
> The Forest Park, Lake Park and Morrow areas of Clayton County (Clayton County Public Schools) where there is a fairly noticeably large population of Hispanic/Latino and Asian residents in an overwhelmingly predominantly black county (...the housing is very affordable here but the schools are not as highly-rated here as they are in other parts of the Atlanta metro area)...
> Cobb County in the Kennesaw/Acworth/North Cobb, Marietta/Central Cobb and Smyrna/Vinings areas (...lots of blacks and Hispanics along with some Asians in these areas, but nowhere near as many Asians as in Gwinnett, North DeKalb and North Fulton counties....Cobb County schools are also run fairly well but nowhere near as well as Gwinnett and North Fulton schools).
You would like living in the Atlanta metro area. Metro Atlanta is a large major metro area of about 5.5 million with an extremely diverse and extremely transient population of residents who come from all over the country and all over the world.
Because of your diverse background and your wife's Asian heritage, the first place that you will likely be directed to look for employment and housing will be Gwinnett County, which is a county with an increasingly extremely diverse population, an affordable high-quality housing stock and excellent schools.
Racial and ethnic minorities made up over 58% of Gwinnett County's population as of 2013.
...Blacks made up more than 26%, Asians made up more than 11% and Hispanics/Latinos made up more than 20% of Gwinnett County's population as of 2013....So you and your family should have no problem finding grocery stores, retail stores and business establishments that cater to and serve the needs of the Asian and Hispanic/Latino populations in Gwinnett County or in Northeast Metro Atlanta (including in North Fulton and North DeKalb counties as well).
Gwinnett County, with a current population of about 878,000 residents that is expected to reach 1 million residents in the not-too-distant future, is also home to the largest school system in the state of Georgia with an enrollment of over 173,000 students.
GCPS (Gwinnett County Public Schools) is a perennially fast-growing school system that always seems to be adding new schools and always seems to be hiring new teachers and educators because of the explosive population growth and natural turnover in personnel in such a large urban/suburban county.
GCPS is generally an extremely well-run large urban-suburban school system and has been recognized for its excellence in urban education by twice being awarded the Broad Prize for Urban Education in 2010 and 2014. Home Page - The Broad Prize for Urban Education
Gwinnett County is most likely the first place you should look for employment and housing based on these conditions.
Other areas that should probably be near the top of your list for employment and housing are in the ultra-diverse North Fulton County (Sandy Springs) and North DeKalb County (Doraville/Chamblee) areas.
(...The schools are generally run extremely well in North Fulton County while in North DeKalb County you will find some excellent urban schools in a county school system (DeKalb County Schools) that has had some problems with ethics and competency in management in recent years.)
You could also checkout other urban areas like:
> The City of Atlanta (Atlanta Public Schools) (...look in the City of Atlanta for employment purposes only...the home prices are kind of relatively higher here and may be beyond your budget of $300k in many areas, plus the Asian and Hispanic/Latino populations are not as large here as they are in Gwinnett, North DeKalb and North Fulton counties)...
> The Forest Park, Lake Park and Morrow areas of Clayton County (Clayton County Public Schools) where there is a fairly noticeably large population of Hispanic/Latino and Asian residents in an overwhelmingly predominantly black county (...the housing is very affordable here but the schools are not as highly-rated here as they are in other parts of the Atlanta metro area)...
> Cobb County in the Kennesaw/Acworth/North Cobb, Marietta/Central Cobb and Smyrna/Vinings areas (...lots of blacks and Hispanics along with some Asians in these areas, but nowhere near as many Asians as in Gwinnett, North DeKalb and North Fulton counties....Cobb County schools are also run fairly well but nowhere near as well as Gwinnett and North Fulton schools).
sadinpgh, this is expert advise you are receiving from Born 2 Roll.
As far as smiling at strangers in public and receiving the cold shoulder/fear in response, trust me when I tell you we may as well be on different planets than Pittsburgh when it comes to this. In every possible way. This is perhaps the friendliest major Metro in the U.S. when it comes to random, everyday public interaction.
MOST of us will not turn away in fear or mistrust, but will strike up a conversation or simply return the pleasantry.
Clayton County Schools (especially the ethnically diverse schools in Forest Park, Lake City (not "Lake Park" as poster earlier), and Morrow would be a good fit for you, especially in the Forest Park High feeder pattern (Forest Park High School doesn't have any majority population so I am told, but has a Hispanic plurality along with large Black and Asian populations with a residual of the working class Whites that historically lived in the community). Your own children could probably get a good education in Clayton too, if they were motivated (that is really the case EVERYWHERE), but the lauded Fayette County Schools are just to the West of Clayton County with well regarded Henry County schools to the east/ southeast. The diverse schools in Gwinnett and northern/ north central Dekalb County may also ring your bell. Your special education certification is like gold at metro job fairs. Many school systems are looking for ESOL/ ELL certified teachers, too. I really feel you will have no problem getting a teaching job. You will love the friendliness of Metro Atlanta! Yes, our all community is conservative, except for certain pockets, but conservative DOES NOT MEAN hateful, at least not around here in Clayton County and its environs. You will find that most people are "live and let live" and are genuinely nice. I am a sixteen year public educator (Atlanta Public Schools, Fulton County Schools, and Henry County Schools) and don't let the "no teacher's union crowd" discourage you. You just "get into the trenches" and labor doing what you know is best for the children, and at the end of the school year you will find everything turned out at least OK, and at time fantastically! Finally, like the call letters of one of our television/ radio stations WSB: "Welcome South Brother!"
First off thanks so much to everyone for all the responses! I work two full time jobs right now, 90 hours a week, so my time to respond on here strictly comes from prep periods at school (we are in finals, so nothing left to prep!) so I'm going to tackle responses to these one at a time, but in one post, so I apologize for any convolution.
Lastminutemom- Yea it seems a bit early, but not at the same time. If I feel I'm able to finish up my school work in one year then I'll need to start applying for the spring 2016 hiring season. I just hate feeling rushed. Unfortunately this often leads to impatience in people like me haha. Nonetheless. Unions and pensions are something we need to consider. PA schools are usually highly unionized. The school I work at right now is not, and it's frustrating. I have love hate feelings towards the unions and especially tenure, and I've seen a large number of tenured teachers "check out" once they have their job security. If nothing else, it'll keep me on the top of my game. I try to be a realist, but still look for the silver lining when possible. I'm getting rather tired of the overwhelming negativity that comes with living in the NE.
I've been checking out payscales in Atlanta metro, and it seems somewhat all over the place. Basically, here's the trend I've noticed. For a teacher with a graduate degree, ATL starts off with a higher pay than here, but the final amount after 15 years is less. PA has one of the highest 15 year cap averages in the country, so it's a little tough to compare, but by the same token, it's tough to find work. Example: I worked at a suburban school in an affluent neighborhood last year, they didn't have the funds to keep me. I work at an inner city school now, we may be shutting down at the end of this year. There was one history teacher position available in our metro area this year, which I applied and interviewed for, they told me there were over 750 applicants. Times are tough up here. I'll just feel blessed to find work at this point.
SedimenJerry - I think I touched on some of what you said already. I've been looking into COL religiously for a few cities. PGH likes to boast "most liveable" (that's what landed us here, partially). Not so much. One of their famed affordable homes under $150k will be a house built in 1930, pretty much touching both neighboring homes and with no back yard, bad school district, high crime area and will need 50+ k in repairs. We've looked a lot. There are newer homes in nice areas, but the price for a decent 3/2 in the burbs here will be at least $350k + ...... and the people in these areas are rather pretentious. There's very little middle class opportunities. Thanks for the heads up and info!
Born 2 Roll and Jmatl - Super informative, seems like you hit the nail on the head with all of the geographical info I was looking for. I'm going to look more into these areas promptly!!!!!! Gwinnett sounds exactly like what we are looking for.
A little more FYI about my situation just because. Current I live a lower class struggling neighborhood that is wedged in between two affluent neighborhoods. I work in, what has been told to me, the roughest school in the city (kids in my school will talk back, spit, not hesitate to take a swing at you or push you). I feel bad for them as it's in a rough area. I see the worst of PGH on the daily. I leave this job to wait tables at one of the most upscale eateries in the city located amongst million dollar homes and farrari owners. I run the gamut of residents here. I prefer the urban population in all honesty.
Another thing that has been of concern to me is the smog. Is it really that bad in ATL? Are there areas where it is less so?
Clayton white guy - Thanks for the info! you posted while I was typing the short novel above so I missed your post. Live and let live is what we desire. Liberal or conservative, whatever, as long as you don't judge me before you know me. We come from Alaska. A Republican conservative gun toting state full of unbathed hippies and hipsters covered in tattoos. The state is a 365 million acre contradiction and I LOVED it. You can find the grungiest, stinkiest cabin dwellers sitting next to the richest lawyers at a bar, conversing and having a ball. Here, it's been tough. My wife and I have tattoo sleeves. We also have a daughter who is advanced by at least two years for her age because my wife works rigorously with her education while I work two jobs to allow her to be the stay at home mom she wants to be. When we first moved here, we had a clearly wealthy woman in her 40's come up to us while we were out with out daughter and say that people like us shouldn't have kids. I know the speech, you get tattoos you should expect people to look. Go ahead, look, my tattoos are freaking awesome. But judging someone's personality and parenting skills TO THEIR FACE and in front of their daughter, ugh, I'm over. This kind of stuff happens a lot here. Conservative or not, I'm hoping ATL is at least welcoming enough to "live and let live" which from what I see and hear .... it should be a non issue for us. Thanks as well for all the career info! Sixteen years as a teacher, seems the non union thing hasn't phased you!
Clayton white guy - Thanks for the info! you posted while I was typing the short novel above so I missed your post. Live and let live is what we desire. Liberal or conservative, whatever, as long as you don't judge me before you know me. We come from Alaska. A Republican conservative gun toting state full of unbathed hippies and hipsters covered in tattoos. The state is a 365 million acre contradiction and I LOVED it. You can find the grungiest, stinkiest cabin dwellers sitting next to the richest lawyers at a bar, conversing and having a ball. Here, it's been tough. My wife and I have tattoo sleeves. We also have a daughter who is advanced by at least two years for her age because my wife works rigorously with her education while I work two jobs to allow her to be the stay at home mom she wants to be. When we first moved here, we had a clearly wealthy woman in her 40's come up to us while we were out with out daughter and say that people like us shouldn't have kids. I know the speech, you get tattoos you should expect people to look. Go ahead, look, my tattoos are freaking awesome. But judging someone's personality and parenting skills TO THEIR FACE and in front of their daughter, ugh, I'm over. This kind of stuff happens a lot here. Conservative or not, I'm hoping ATL is at least welcoming enough to "live and let live" which from what I see and hear .... it should be a non issue for us. Thanks as well for all the career info! Sixteen years as a teacher, seems the non union thing hasn't phased you!
Your posts are making me sad! Honey come on down to Atlanta. We have everything you're looking for. We've got the cultural/ethnic/political diversity. We've got transplants from everywhere, so everyone's pretty accepting of others. My partner and I are also tattooed, with my man being heavily tattooed, and we go out with our 2 year old all the time. We often see other tattooed parents all over the metro, from the hipsters in East Atlanta to the country folks out in the boonies!
I think that, socially, you'd be very happy here.
We also have the nature aspect that you said you love. Mountains, hiking trails, rivers, lakes- there is SO much to do outdoors within an hour or two from Atlanta.
While home prices and demographic stats might vary slightly two years from now, I still think that this would be a great place for you and your family.
OuiOui - Thanks so much for the reassurance!! We are really going to try to make it one year instead of two, it just depends on how well we can handle the workload of school/work/family. My wife is working on a startup right now, a small business selling accessories geared towards "alternative parents" that she is starting on etsy, but once moved would like to have a small storefront. So we are busy busy busy. We are planning an extended visit of a week or so either at the end of this summer or maybe over winter break to check out Atlanta in person. I would prefer the summer so I can experience the heat. I digress though. I'm sure that the home price will inevitably rise and the population grows, but the good thing is we don't need much! haha. Living in a one room cabin in Alaska for 5 years has made us very comfortable with small homes It's the people that make us like/dislike "home" more than anything (that and job opportunities of course haha)
ok ... obligatory plug for my wife's startup - sorry, had to do it. (don't let the name fool you! it's not just candles!)
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It's the people that make us like/dislike "home" more than anything (that and job opportunities of course haha)
