"The Braves, Cobb County, and the debate over expanding mass transit" (Atlanta: live, homeless)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by evannole

I agree with this. Transit does not necessarily lead to crime. The simple fact is that MARTA rail, when it was implemented, went to largely low-income areas that already had high crime rates, especially along the east-west line and the south line. MARTA didn't cause the crime or draw the low-income elements (criminal or not) in; they were already there.

All of that aside, there are many of us in Cobb who would welcome rail, whether run by MARTA or another agency, particularly in Cumberland, Smyrna, within the city limits of Marietta and at KSU.

There is one thing to consider. Douglasville, in Douglas County, has no MARTA rail, has no organized mass transit system, and basically only has an express bus, which
1) Doesn't run on weekends
2) Doesn't run on holidays
3) Only goes to Downtown Atlanta.
4) Mostly working people getting on the bus, and it only runs during peak traffic hours.

Douglasville already has crime issues, especially in areas north of I-20. No MARTA rail there and it has its share of crime problems.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

There is one thing to consider. Douglasville, in Douglas County, has no MARTA rail, has no organized mass transit system, and basically only has an express bus, which
1) Doesn't run on weekends
2) Doesn't run on holidays
3) Only goes to Downtown Atlanta.
4) Mostly working people getting on the bus, and it only runs during peak traffic hours.

Douglasville already has crime issues, especially in areas north of I-20. No MARTA rail there and it has its share of crime problems.

Excellent points. There are many contributing factors to crime. The existence of transit stations is not one of them.

Also, let's not forget that prior to White Flight, many Caucasians used city buses every day.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Excellent points. There are many contributing factors to crime. The existence of transit stations is not one of them.

Also, let's not forget that prior to White Flight, many Caucasians used city buses every day.

I remember being in college, and some people telling me they didn't want MARTA. According to them, it would "bring in crime". Interesting thing is, I got jumped and robbed a mile away from the university. No MARTA station, no MARTA bus. The nearest bus stop of any kind was at least a mile's walk from where I got robbed and assaulted. And this was in northern Cobb County. The persons that robbed me had a vehicle.

And consider this. One of the roughest parts of Atlanta is Fulton Industrial Boulevard. Only one bus route goes there. Nearest train station is about 20 minutes by bus, so walking is out of the question.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

There is one thing to consider. Douglasville, in Douglas County, has no MARTA rail, has no organized mass transit system, and basically only has an express bus, which
1) Doesn't run on weekends
2) Doesn't run on holidays
3) Only goes to Downtown Atlanta.
4) Mostly working people getting on the bus, and it only runs during peak traffic hours.

Douglasville already has crime issues, especially in areas north of I-20. No MARTA rail there and it has its share of crime problems.

I agree with you, but am a bit confused as to why you replied to my post directly, and said,"There is one thing to consider." I fully agree that transit doesn't automatically lead to crime. It doesn't directly decrease it, either. Transit is transit, crime is crime, and direct or inverse correlations between the two are tenuous, at best. There are both high and low crime areas connected to transit here in Atlanta, just as there high and low crime areas that are far from transit.

For the record, I support the expansion of transit into Cobb, and don't believe that it would lead to an expansion of crime in the county.

Apologies if I come off as defensive; I was simply puzzled by your response to my post, in particular, when we were apparently in agreement.

[cqholt]

The New York City Subway
NYC used this approach to pay for the 7 train extension to Hudson Yards.

Bloomberg wanted the 7 train so badly that rather than wait for the MTA to drum up the money (he’d still be waiting), the administration said the city itself would foot the bill. The funding structure they devised, known as “tax incremental financing,” was an innovative one—at least by the standards of U.S. transportation funding. The city issued bonds for the construction to be repaid by future tax revenue from developers whose property value would soar once the extension was complete.

On paper, at least, the plan was a great example of what’s called “value capture”—leveraging real estate gains for the good of public transit. In practice, of course, there were hiccups. Officials later ended up giving Hudson Yards developers a tax subsidy, which Columbia University planning scholar David King called “exactly the opposite of capturing increased property values.”

What is 'Value Capture'?
Value Capture - Reconnecting America
Maybe this approach could be used to pay for the extending rail to North Fulton, Gwinnett, and other places because having rail to those places will increase the value of the property?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The New York City Subway
NYC used this approach to pay for the 7 train extension to Hudson Yards.

What is 'Value Capture'?
Value Capture - Reconnecting America
Maybe this approach could be used to pay for the extending rail to North Fulton, Gwinnett, and other places because having rail to those places will increase the value of the property?

We could very well see something like this being used with the streetcars / Belitlne Light Rail. Depending on how MARTA does in getting its expansion money, and how the negotiations between the city and MARTA go as far as operations go, we COULD see the transit funding portion of the Beltline Transit / Atlanta Streetcar budgets getting handed over to MARTA keep building it out.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by evannole

I agree with you, but am a bit confused as to why you replied to my post directly, and said,"There is one thing to consider." I fully agree that transit doesn't automatically lead to crime. It doesn't directly decrease it, either. Transit is transit, crime is crime, and direct or inverse correlations between the two are tenuous, at best. There are both high and low crime areas connected to transit here in Atlanta, just as there high and low crime areas that are far from transit.

For the record, I support the expansion of transit into Cobb, and don't believe that it would lead to an expansion of crime in the county.

Apologies if I come off as defensive; I was simply puzzled by your response to my post, in particular, when we were apparently in agreement.

I frequently use the term "consider".

I know we both agree. I wanted add more to the discussion.

[green_mariner]

There has been alot of opposition towards MARTA all the way back to its founding. During its founding, race issues played a major role. Sometimes I wonder if it is the same today. I've personally heard people say that mass transit will bring in the crime. Sometimes I wonder if said persons saying this really do believe it will bring in crime, or if there is something else they aren't saying. I wonder this because these are often people I know saying this.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

There has been alot of opposition towards MARTA all the way back to its founding. During its founding, race issues played a major role. Sometimes I wonder if it is the same today. I've personally heard people say that mass transit will bring in the crime. Sometimes I wonder if said persons saying this really do believe it will bring in crime, or if there is something else they aren't saying. I wonder this because these are often people I know saying this.

Most people are morons.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Most people are morons.

I wouldn't say most. However, I do believe there is a segment of the population that would tolerate alot of intolerable things just so they don't have to have mass transit around them.