MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Savannah: employment, university)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

Yes. 42 years is basically permanent. I couldn't support something that long term on top of the existing 1 cent tax. I could definitely support something longer than 5 years.

Seniors should be allowed to opt out. Even if they put the additional tax on today it will probably be 15 years before you see any new trains rolling and many of us will be gone by then.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

True, unless MARTA/GRTA/GDOT build parallel rails / helped fund capacity upgrades as leverage to getting Commuter Rail track rights.

I would love for it to be HRT down to Clayton, but if you can build Commuter Rail at a fraction of the cost for similar or equal service, why not?

I want to see the studies that MARTA puts out before I solidify my opinion though.

I'll bet that MARTA will cheapen out on CR to Clayton and make it "GRTA Express on rails" with limited one-way rush hour service. Plus riders would still have to transfer at East Point.

Meanwhile, when Clayton residents see HRT extensions to Windward and Stonecrest and wonder why they're getting the shaft with halfass service, they'll probably get very upset.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Seniors should be allowed to opt out. Even if they put the additional tax on today it will probably be 15 years before you see any new trains rolling and many of us will be gone by then.

Not everything is about placating your generation.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Seniors should be allowed to opt out. Even if they put the additional tax on today it will probably be 15 years before you see any new trains rolling and many of us will be gone by then.

Originally Posted by Gulch

Not everything is about placating your generation.

EVERYONE, including seniors, benefits from increased regional mobility. If seniors get to opt out, so should lower income residents, since that's basically what you're saying. Ideally we wouldn't be relying on sales taxes, but since we are, seniors have to pay just the same as anyone.

Originally Posted by Gulch

I'll bet that MARTA will cheapen out on CR to Clayton and make it "GRTA Express on rails" with limited one-way rush hour service. Plus riders would still have to transfer at East Point.

Meanwhile, when Clayton residents see HRT extensions to Windward and Stonecrest and wonder why they're getting the shaft with halfass service, they'll probably get very upset.

I'm not so certain. It's fair to be worried, but I have yet to see anything that says that they'll do what you're saying they will as far as service frequency goes.

It may be the case if they have to use existing tracks. They may hold all day two way service every half hour with ten minute rush hour trains. They may build their own tracks. They may upgrade the existing tracks.

One thing I will give you is the transfer at Eastpoint. They NEED to figure out a way to bring it in to 5 Points. I would LOVE to see some kind of simi-perminant platform and/or siding with access to 5 Points. It doesn't have to be MMPT level build, but SOMETHING would be nice even if it were just a concrete pad and a Breezecard Machine with a MARTA cop booth.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Gulch

I'll bet that MARTA will cheapen out on CR to Clayton and make it "GRTA Express on rails" with limited one-way rush hour service. Plus riders would still have to transfer at East Point.

Meanwhile, when Clayton residents see HRT extensions to Windward and Stonecrest and wonder why they're getting the shaft with halfass service, they'll probably get very upset.

I haven't seen any discussion about connecting this eventually into downtown. It is part of the Chattanooga-Jacksonville passenger rail idea. But there seems to be no plan for implementing the passenger rail. I just don't see this being of much benefit to Clayton relative to a bus plan.

If they have to build their own track instead of using N-S it really increases the cost. I'd like to see how much more it costs to do HRT (and of course, how using that ROW impacts an eventual passenger rail).

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

what $8B will buy:

Love the map, it's always very important to see what you are going to get. That sells the idea better than anything.

But I think you are leaving one huge piece out...

The biggest public works package in decades would have other elements as well. In DeKalb County, there would be a rail link to Emory University and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, plus another line shooting eastward along I-20. Within the city of Atlanta, the Beltline awaits.

Now, I really hate the way this was written, but reading this multiple times leads me to believe the 8 B will include funding for Beltline transit. That is huge. Likely not the whole network, but some of the more important pieces sound like they will be funded.

Sad to think this doesn't include Cobb or Gwinnett, but who knows, jealousy may kick in.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Sad to think this doesn't include Cobb or Gwinnett, but who knows, jealousy may kick in.

Cue arjay/netdragon with the "we'll be just fine without MARTA" schtick.

[tikigod311]

Well, I know the inclusion of both those counties would make for a huge transformation of the system. I just wish they would join for everybody's benefit.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Love the map, it's always very important to see what you are going to get. That sells the idea better than anything.

But I think you are leaving one huge piece out...



Now, I really hate the way this was written, but reading this multiple times leads me to believe the 8 B will include funding for Beltline transit. That is huge. Likely not the whole network, but some of the more important pieces sound like they will be funded.

Sad to think this doesn't include Cobb or Gwinnett, but who knows, jealousy may kick in.

Thanks! I believe it's important to step back and see the whole picture too.

As for the Beltline, the way I understood it is that right now the State of Georgia allows counties to have its citizens vote to approve 1% TSPLOSTs in 5 year intervals. MARTA wants to take that existing legislation, and amend it to 1) Allow the county to volunteer a part of that 1% (see .5%) to a local transit agency for projects within the county, and 2) extend the time the tax is in place from 5 years to some agreed upon length (see, the end of existing MARTA sales tax).

So, Fulton/DeKalb/Clayton and maybe eventually Gwinnett Counties would vote to levy their 1% TSPLOSTs with half of that revenue going to MARTA, and half going to the counties.

That half going to MARTA is what allows the $4B bonds to be issued, and then matched by the Feds. The half going to the counties can be used how ever they see fit. For Fulton, this can mean anything from contributing to Atlanta Streetcar/Atlanta Beltline Inc. (another local transit authority) to building new PATH trails and repaving streets.

[MattCW]

Good grief, as I have explained NUMEROUS times before, there is no realistic way MARTA is going to get away with running commuter rail just to East Point. Not only will the public complain, but the freight railroads simply won't allow it unless they build an expensive siding track, that there really isn't room for. A single train turning around takes about 20 minutes. It's not as simple as throwing it in reverse and cranking open the throttle like your car. CSX and NS (CSX's busy Atlanta-Savannah/Jacksonville mainline joins right at East Point) are simply not going to want multiple passenger trains tying up the mainline for a third of an hour!