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Wake me up when they start servicing more than 2 counties.
Fulton + Dekalb + Clayton = 3 counties. Clayton passed a referendum last year to begin collecting the required 1% sales tax and join MARTA, and MARTA has been adding new bus service in Clayton periodically throughout 2015: MARTA to add two new bus routes in Clayton County | www.ajc.com Rail service isn't there yet, but MARTA is conducting studies outside of the scope of the projects discussed in this thread to bring rail service to the county.
If you live in Gwinnett or Cobb and feel that MARTA should offer service there, lobby your county leadership to pass the 1% sales tax and join the way Clayton did. It's not MARTA that is the hold-up there.
I couldn't find the "Design your own MARTA" thread for proposals, but here is something I just put together really quick:
The idea here is a branded, articulated, BRT-like bus that does its best to act like a train, running multiple lines. Could be a very cost effective way to expand/ improve transit in the city. Also these routes would replace local bus routes wherever there's overlap. (These are just example routes I came up with- could have a lot more.)
Main features:
-High capacity bus, specially branded
-Traffic signal priority system
-Very limited stops, spaced like rail
-Off-board fare handling
-The stops would all be permanent, fixed 'stations', w/ lighting, artwork, plenty of shelter and benches, bike racks, etc
-Similar frequency/schedule/service levels as MARTA rail
-Connects with Beltline LRT transit on all 4 lines
-Connects with Amtrak station
-Automated voice on bus
-Rapid bus lines map integrated with MARTA rail map
-Branded/marketed as a Bus Rapid Transit (even though it would mostly operate in normal lanes)
-Serves corridors that are lacking rail, particularly in Buckhead
-Emphasizes key locations and 'spots' that people want to go
I couldn't find the "Design your own MARTA" thread for proposals, but here is something I just put together really quick:
The idea here is a branded, articulated, BRT-like bus that does its best to act like a train, running multiple lines. Could be a very cost effective way to expand/ improve transit in the city. Also these routes would replace local bus routes wherever there's overlap. (These are just example routes I came up with- could have a lot more.)
Main features:
-High capacity bus, specially branded
-Traffic signal priority system
-Very limited stops, spaced like rail
-Off-board fare handling
-The stops would all be permanent, fixed 'stations', w/ lighting, artwork, plenty of shelter and benches, bike racks, etc
-Similar frequency/schedule/service levels as MARTA rail
-Connects with Beltline LRT transit on all 4 lines
-Connects with Amtrak station
-Automated voice on bus
-Rapid bus lines map integrated with MARTA rail map
-Branded/marketed as a Bus Rapid Transit (even though it would mostly operate in normal lanes)
-Serves corridors that are lacking rail, particularly in Buckhead
-Emphasizes key locations and 'spots' that people want to go
You'd have South Fulton up in arms, mate. Try putting more busway down into the southern city. Also, you're missing a bit of the I-20 East BRT that is in the works.
No, I know. Point I mean to make, is that with BRT for a couple billion dollars you could have an entire new SYSTEM to compliment the rail system. Not just one new rail line or a few new stops at the end of the line. Assuming none or minimal construction needs.
Hopefully the I-20 East BRT will be a success and can be a model for more BRT lines, or rapid bus or however you call it. Buses are just such a quick and easy and inexpensive way to do train-like transit, and seem to especially make sense for Atlanta, where the only kind of layout logic we have is that all the mess of roads eventually connect with each other.
No, I know. Point I mean to make, is that with BRT for a couple billion dollars you could have an entire new SYSTEM to compliment the rail system. Not just one new rail line or a few new stops at the end of the line. Assuming none or minimal construction needs.
Hopefully the I-20 East BRT will be a success and can be a model for more BRT lines, or rapid bus or however you call it. Buses are just such a quick and easy and inexpensive way to do train-like transit, and seem to especially make sense for Atlanta, where the only kind of layout logic we have is that all the mess of roads eventually connect with each other.
Don't forget the railroads. Atlanta is, by its history, a city built around the railroads. That's why our downtown grid is so weird. that's where a lot of MARTA rail follows. That's where a good bit of high-capacity roads follow. Heck, you can plot most of the major suburbs by their proximity to the rail lines.
Buses definitely have their place here in the metro, but so does commuter rail, and heavy rail, and light rail, and streetcars.
I really want MARTA to have a plan to build up frequent service / improved service bus routes, but I don't see them as THE solution to our problems (not that you do either, but it's a theme that pops up often enough). Any mode of transit only really stands to augment the others. Just as buses feed into trains, so too do trains filter down into buses, or cars, or walkers, or bikers. Same with the other modes.
No, I know. Point I mean to make, is that with BRT for a couple billion dollars you could have an entire new SYSTEM to compliment the rail system. Not just one new rail line or a few new stops at the end of the line. Assuming none or minimal construction needs.
Hopefully the I-20 East BRT will be a success and can be a model for more BRT lines, or rapid bus or however you call it. Buses are just such a quick and easy and inexpensive way to do train-like transit, and seem to especially make sense for Atlanta, where the only kind of layout logic we have is that all the mess of roads eventually connect with each other.
If done right, not that half-ass attempt on Memorial Dr that failed. Your idea I'd great and could complement the existing HRT system, proposed expansions and future streetcar network.
Fulton Industrial Blvd and Buford Hwy are great corridors to start this idea with.
If done right, not that half-ass attempt on Memorial Dr that failed. Your idea I'd great and could complement the existing HRT system, proposed expansions and future streetcar network.
Fulton Industrial Blvd and Buford Hwy are great corridors to start this idea with.
Absolutely. The real question is how not half-assed is appropriate? The more grade-separated you get, the more expensive the whole thing becomes, to the point where some BRT begins to overlap with LRT costs for equivalent services. For example, some roads have room along their edges for another lane in both directions, but that'd be expensive to build (unless lumped with resurfacing / rebuilding of the road anyway).
Some roads don't have room along their edges, but might accommodate que-jump lanes. The problem then becomes ensuring the buses are actually able to reach those lanes, and that they can still move along. Bus lanes are the obvious cheap solution, but good luck getting those on roads that need them. We all saw what happened with the bike lanes, now just imagine you're actually taking travel lanes away!
One thing I've noticed while around Atlantic Station, is that some of the MARTA Buses don't actually use the Bus Lanes. If anyone knows why this is, please let me know, 'cause I have no idea. One thing I do know, is that, if you put in bus lanes, they MUST be used and in an obvious way. Having a bus every ten minutes is a good start, even better if you're overlapping lines to give yourself 5 min headways. The point is, we'll run into a lot of opposition if they do not give the appearance of use, even if they are actually preforming their duties just fine.
If Georgia owned the rail corridors and could do whatever it wanted with each track, then I'd be fantasizing about the possibilities of commuter rail, or converting a part of those corridors to LRT or even HRT. But given the fact that it's all privately held, and how heavily used the lines are for freight shipping, it just seems like a million steps and years to get anywhere with all that. Not that I don't see the great potential there.
Plus, with commuter rail, it's pretty obvious where the lines and stops would be. Along the rail road tracks. Stops in the downtowns, and some major roads for park&ride or whatever. Central stop at Five Points to tie everything together. I don't think there's anything to plan or think about, other than we just have to wait to see what various transportation and transit officials in Georgia can work out deal with the railroad corporations. Personally I think sharing tracks could work fine, and would involve minimal new tracks to lay. And there is definitely so much value with how simple the stations could be.
But I'm just more excited lately in thinking about what could be done with the bus, as a shuttle/ express service, a rapid mass transit service that acts like a small train. My examples above are just examples, but try to imagine vividly, a very nice, permanently fixed bus station that resembles the streetcar platforms, except maybe a bit wider/longer. With the name of the station featured, and maybe some uniqueness in the design, with some local neighborhood flair, that makes it a little different from all the other bus stations. And replacing all other bus routes through the immediate area, so that it becomes THE spot for everyone to walk to and gather and socialize and catch the bus going either way. With even more street community than the rail stations, which would promote local foot traffic, and likely spur and anchor development.
Imagine a 'Virginia Highland' station, near the corner of Virginia Ave and North Highland Ave. It's on the C Line, running from Midtown to Inman Park. You walk there from your home, wait for 5 minutes or so, then the westbound articulated bus arrives and you and a few others tap your breeze card to board. The female intercom voice says, "This is Virginia Highland station. The next stop is Monroe Drive. This bus is bound for Midtown Station." So the bus follows the roads and drives to Monroe Dr near the Beltline, with no stops along the way, as if it was a car. Except even faster than a car trip, because it's sync'ed up with the traffic light system to minimize red light delay.
It stops at Monroe, a few people get off and on. Then it stops once more really quick, at the other side of Piedmont Park along 10th. With all these stops being nice, well-lit bus stations. Then it gets to Midtown Station, where most people get off. And maybe at that point you could have the line continue through Georgia Tech and the Westside, but with infrequent, formalized stops, spaced well apart. Like a shuttle service.
Then you just do enough of those Rapid/BRT lines, that everything in the whole metro is all connected together by them, when combined with the backbone HRT lines. And you gradually replace and phase out the old school local bus system, which a lot of people never ride, anyway. The idea would be to phase out the stigma and negative reputation along with it.
And I think this part is absolutely key- you unify the BRT and HRT map as one. So that it looks like New York subway map, and looks great and is easy enough to figure out at a quick study.
I'm not saying no to the rail expansions, I'm saying after this next wave, for the most part let's retire rail and dream up a BRT metro. It's insanely more cost effective, for great service.
Absolutely. The real question is how not half-assed is appropriate? The more grade-separated you get, the more expensive the whole thing becomes, to the point where some BRT begins to overlap with LRT costs for equivalent services. For example, some roads have room along their edges for another lane in both directions, but that'd be expensive to build (unless lumped with resurfacing / rebuilding of the road anyway).
Some roads don't have room along their edges, but might accommodate que-jump lanes. The problem then becomes ensuring the buses are actually able to reach those lanes, and that they can still move along. Bus lanes are the obvious cheap solution, but good luck getting those on roads that need them. We all saw what happened with the bike lanes, now just imagine you're actually taking travel lanes away!
One thing I've noticed while around Atlantic Station, is that some of the MARTA Buses don't actually use the Bus Lanes. If anyone knows why this is, please let me know, 'cause I have no idea. One thing I do know, is that, if you put in bus lanes, they MUST be used and in an obvious way. Having a bus every ten minutes is a good start, even better if you're overlapping lines to give yourself 5 min headways. The point is, we'll run into a lot of opposition if they do not give the appearance of use, even if they are actually preforming their duties just fine.
First start with roads with extra lanes, eg: FIB and Buford Hwy. Have a bus only lane with a double white line, crossing over double white lines is prohibited, and signal priority. Start with roads that have lanes to give and demonstrate to the public and elected officials that it can work. On urban roads, with no extra ROW, the buses will have to travel in general travel lanes, but add the priority signals and less stops.
Exclusive transit lanes are just never going to happen, except for maybe certain stretches of a few roads. Signal priority system is the way to go. Let the buses run in shared traffic, as long as they keep moving. Then everyone is kept happy.
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