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West Atlanta/Fulton needs some MARTA rail love. It's the only leg of the plus sign that still doesn't even reach 285.
At least put a station at Boulder Park/Brownlee @ 285, which has been the plan for ages. With ramp access directly from 285.
And the poor Green line is like a dead stub line, with only one unique station on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
I think the ridership would be there for the one stop extension on Blue, especially for a particularly key location, right on the highway. All the bus routes from SW Atlanta could be routed to go directly from 285 into the Boulder Park station loop.
As for Green, I'd like to see the Boone infill, but I'd more like to see an extension up the growing Marietta Blvd corridor. The next station would be right on the Beltline, near the future park, plus would finally directly serve the Perry Blvd corridor, like they were promised in the early 90's.
Agreed, the Blue Line needs to be extended west to at least near 285.
Well, that begs the question: What's the evidence that it's worth it?
Even in the areas of Atlanta that have public transit, not very many (of those who have a choice) use it.
To the extent that people in MARTA-served areas do not use MARTA, part of the problem is likely that said areas are underserved. If (for example), I live in Roswell and work in the Emory area, both ostensibly in MARTA's service area, transit might be a viable option for me -- or it might not, particularly if I'm not within easy walking distance of bus stops in Roswell. The expansion projects for which MARTA is asking for the 1/2% sales tax should improve the travel-time-competitiveness of transit in currently-underserved MARTA areas.
In other words, for transit to be a realistic option for a given commute, both ends of the commute (at least) have to have reasonably-efficient transit access, and the expansions we're discussing will open up quite a few new destinations in that regard. The assumption (and, to your point, it is reasonable to ask for some justification here) is that increased ridership will follow.
With regard to your first question about evidence: MARTA has published some of its study results in the summaries of locally-preferred alternatives and scoping booklets; here's one for the South Dekalb expansion, and here's another for the North Fulton expansion. What kinds of evidence / studies would you want to see in order to be persuaded of the merits of the projects? Is there a particular estimated ridership threshold you have in mind?
Exactly. It's not so much whether there is a station near you, although that's a part of it. But it's more of how much of the metro is actually connected, which is not much right now. Or not much via train, which is supposed to be the backbone of the system.
I currently live near Medical Center MARTA station, but my work is up in Alpharetta, and my MARTA commute is something like twice as long as my driving on 400 commute, so I usually just drive. If I took MARTA, it's actually faster to just drive up to North Springs, and take the bus. Which is kind of a shame since I live next to a station. And then they also recently cancelled my local bus route as well with the most recent service changes.
So yeah, I drive every day and therefore I'm the worst MARTA advocate ever. (But my situation will be changing once my work moves to Midtown, and I also move myself closer in.)
I love MARTA more than anyone, but MARTA sucks. It's not MARTA's fault, it's our fault. We have to build it out like crazy for it to become truly useful for most people. Same thing with the streetcar.
To the extent that people in MARTA-served areas do not use MARTA, part of the problem is likely that said areas are underserved. If (for example), I live in Roswell and work in the Emory area, both ostensibly in MARTA's service area, transit might be a viable option for me -- or it might not, particularly if I'm not within easy walking distance of bus stops in Roswell. The expansion projects for which MARTA is asking for the 1/2% sales tax should improve the travel-time-competitiveness of transit in currently-underserved MARTA areas.
In other words, for transit to be a realistic option for a given commute, both ends of the commute (at least) have to have reasonably-efficient transit access, and the expansions we're discussing will open up quite a few new destinations in that regard. The assumption (and, to your point, it is reasonable to ask for some justification here) is that increased ridership will follow.
Right, the concept of light-mile connectivity is a major component to how effective our mass-transit is. If you can get on the train from a park-n-ride alright, but can't get to your destination without three buses, then it's hardly worth the effort.
Something that will help with this in the 1/2 cent sales tax is the possible streetcar expansions. The revamped bus service should also, hopefully, help with this concept. Both would extend to areas not currently served by rail or high-frequency bus routes. With these, a higher percentage of both residents and employers in the city, and region will be covered by higher-frequency, and thus more usable transit.
And people on the southside using vehicles got home in a much shorter time than those utilizing MARTA.
Well I don't know if that is necessarily the case that everyone on the Southside using vehicles got home in a much shorter time frame than those using MARTA.
People who were commuting between different points on the Southside may have experienced fewer commuting delays that day because the 2014 Snowmageddon storm seemed to have the worst effects on the west, northwest and north sides of the Atlanta metro region (particularly on the I-20 West, I-75/I-575 Northwest and GA 400 North corridors).
But people who were commuting to points on the Southside from Downtown Atlanta and points north (Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, etc) seemed to experience some significant delays over those 2 days or so because of the crush of people all trying to leave work at once throughout most of the Atlanta region when the snow starting falling and intensifying about noon on that Tuesday (January 28, 2014).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
B2R just has a totally failed point that all of you stick your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge. In part of the system MARTA caused problems and caused people significantly more delays than those driving. You keep pointing out about Cobb County that isn't served by MARTA and Dunwoody which is. It worked for Dunwoody. It failed for the southside. It guarantees nothing in the case of unusual situations such as floods or snowstorms.
The only reason why MARTA might have failed for those commuting to Atlanta's southern suburbs on that day was because MARTA Heavy Rail Transit service only goes as far as the Atlanta Airport. If one had to commute any farther than the Atlanta Airport, they had no choice but to drive or attempt to utilize some of the meager bus service offerings to and from the Southern suburbs.
One really cannot blame any delays that commuters might have experienced that day on MARTA because MARTA Heavy Rail Transit service operates no further than the Atlanta Airport....Most people driving beyond that point really had no choice but to drive on roads like I-75 South and I-85 South.
Though it should be noted that the worst effects of the storm that day were on the north side of the region where the population and intensity of development is the heaviest (in the aforementioned I-20 West, I-75/I-575 Northwest and GA 400 North corridors) and where state, regional and local officials were completely unprepared to deal with the effects of the storm because officials had thought that the storm would hit south of Atlanta (Southern suburbs down to Middle Georgia) where state officials had directed almost all of their limited fleet of winter road clearing equipment.
Despite some delays from an electrical fire, people who were commuting to points north on MARTA (along the GA 400 North and I-85 Northeast corridors) mostly seemed to get home much quicker to areas served by MARTA Heavy Rail Transit service than people commuting to those same areas by automobile on gridlocked arterial roadways.
People commuting to Cobb County and points north along the I-75 and I-575 corridors on that day seemed to experience some of the absolute worst delays during the Snowmageddon debacle because the most snow and ice seemed to fall in Northwest Metro Atlanta and because of the lack of road preparation and the lack of a high-capacity transit option along the heavily-developed and heavily-populated I-75 Northwest corridor.
Floods are a totally different situation from snowstorms, but during a storm like the one in January 2014 where only 2.6 inches of snow fell but ice buildup and gridlock were massive and widespread problems, the addiction of a high-capacity rail transit option along high-capacity transportation corridors can help people to get around during a winter weather emergency where rail transit can (and should) continue to operate while the roads are impassable with gridlocked traffic.
To the extent that people in MARTA-served areas do not use MARTA, part of the problem is likely that said areas are underserved. If (for example), I live in Roswell and work in the Emory area, both ostensibly in MARTA's service area, transit might be a viable option for me -- or it might not, particularly if I'm not within easy walking distance of bus stops in Roswell. The expansion projects for which MARTA is asking for the 1/2% sales tax should improve the travel-time-competitiveness of transit in currently-underserved MARTA areas.
In other words, for transit to be a realistic option for a given commute, both ends of the commute (at least) have to have reasonably-efficient transit access, and the expansions we're discussing will open up quite a few new destinations in that regard. The assumption (and, to your point, it is reasonable to ask for some justification here) is that increased ridership will follow.
With regard to your first question about evidence: MARTA has published some of its study results in the summaries of locally-preferred alternatives and scoping booklets; here's one for the South Dekalb expansion, and here's another for the North Fulton expansion. What kinds of evidence / studies would you want to see in order to be persuaded of the merits of the projects? Is there a particular estimated ridership threshold you have in mind?
Well said, sumitsu. And no, I don't think there's any particular ridership threshold that can be specified.
While I'm a fan of public transit it's not easy to get that level of connectivity that makes it an attractive option.
Well said, sumitsu. And no, I don't think there's any particular ridership threshold that can be specified.
While I'm a fan of public transit it's not easy to get that level of connectivity that makes it an attractive option.
And we will never reach that point if we continue to not invest in high-capacity transit modes, both on the road, and on the rails.
MARTA has a decent plan to expand its rail to reach more commuters / job centers. MARTA will hopefully soon show us a decent plan to revamp its bus network to appeal to more demand riders, in a way that will make it more useful to everyone.
Atlanta has a decent plan for streetcars within the core and along the BeltLine. Atlanta also has decent bike network plans.
GDOT has decent plans for the MMPT and long-range commuter / inter-city rail reaching far out into the state and even beyond at times.
All of this should make the inner-city far more livable without a car, even extending out to other cities and their abilities to be lived in without being forced to use a car.
All we have to do is fund it. MARTA and CoA have funding methods in mind, which they are actively pushing fore. The state is... well, they're doing their own thing, maybe moving forward, maybe not.
If you want a world-class city, you have to invest in it. I can dream of Atlanta having the most extensive and best transit system outside of the Big 3 cities, but to get there requires $ of infrastructure. It can done.
If you want a world-class city, you have to invest in it. I can dream of Atlanta having the most extensive and best transit system outside of the Big 3 cities, but to get there requires $ of infrastructure. It can done.
We're actually not that far behind Los Angeles, which doesn't exactly have the country's best transit.
But we're definitely far behind Boston, Philadelphia, DC, and even plenty of smaller cities like Portland.
We're actually not that far behind Los Angeles, which doesn't exactly have the country's best transit.
But we're definitely far behind Boston, Philadelphia, DC, and even plenty of smaller cities like Portland.
We are not behind Portland. Portland has MAX, but it is LRT and does not have the coverage MARTA offers. LRT cannot compare to the speed or capacity of HRT.
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