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I know this is beating a dead horse, and pointless, but here's why I think Cobb should join MARTA, but not Gwinnett: http://i.imgur.com/s1CNJLR.png
Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority is currently 3 counties, I think it should be 4. The truly metropolitan counties. There are 4 ITP counties: Cobb and Clayton have approximately the same amount of inside-285 territory. Cobb directly borders the city of Atlanta. Downtown Marietta is the same distance from Downtown Atlanta as Downtown Jonesboro is, and Clayton has MARTA. Even though Cobb has a lot more people, a lot more traffic problems, and it has high rise urban office buildings. Add the Braves, and it's just a no-brainer.
And by the same token, I don't care anymore whether Gwinnett joins MARTA. And I only think they should, if Cobb does also. Gwinnett doesn't go ITP, has an entire other county between it and Atlanta, doesn't have a major dense business district, and has a large population but that's because of the larger geographical area. They do need commuter rail, but it could just as easily be GRTA.
So, not against the idea of MARTA in Gwinnett, but I say MARTA will never be complete or fully useful, without Cobb.
Having the Cobb Galleria in MARTA is important.
But Gwinnett may well become the most populous county in the metro in the not too far distant future.
I know this is beating a dead horse, and pointless, but here's why I think Cobb should join MARTA, but not Gwinnett: http://i.imgur.com/s1CNJLR.png
Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority is currently 3 counties, I think it should be 4. The truly metropolitan counties. There are 4 ITP counties: Cobb and Clayton have approximately the same amount of inside-285 territory. Cobb directly borders the city of Atlanta. Downtown Marietta is the same distance from Downtown Atlanta as Downtown Jonesboro is, and Clayton has MARTA. Even though Cobb has a lot more people, a lot more traffic problems, and it has high rise urban office buildings. Add the Braves, and it's just a no-brainer.
And by the same token, I don't care anymore whether Gwinnett joins MARTA. And I only think they should, if Cobb does also. Gwinnett doesn't go ITP, has an entire other county between it and Atlanta, doesn't have a major dense business district, and has a large population but that's because of the larger geographical area. They do need commuter rail, but it could just as easily be GRTA.
So, not against the idea of MARTA in Gwinnett, but I say MARTA will never be complete or fully useful, without Cobb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
Having the Cobb Galleria in MARTA is important.
But Gwinnett may well become the most populous county in the metro in the not too far distant future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch
I'd give it 20 years, and Gwinnett should absolutely join MARTA.
primaltech makes an excellent point as to why a county like Cobb should be connected to Atlanta by high-capacity passenger rail transit infrastructure (MARTA or otherwise).
Though like has been expressed in this and other threads on this topic, it is probably highly unlikely at this point in time that a Cobb County that continues to be dominated by conservative transit-averse voters would join a MARTA agency that continues to be dominated by urban progressives in Fulton and DeKalb (and now Clayton) counties.
Cobb's conservative transit-averse Republican-dominated electorate is unlikely to approve of joining a regional transit agency (particularly MARTA) that is not dominated by Northside Republican interests (likely by way of state intervention).
Cobb Republican interests being a minority on a regional transit board (particularly MARTA) that is dominated by urban progressives in Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton counties is just simply not a proposition that would go over very well at this time in a Cobb County political scene that continues to be dominated by both conservative transit-averse and Atlanta-averse voters.
As the county's population continues to grow at a very high clip and as traffic congestion and mobility continue to worsen along the county's major routes during peak hours, Cobb voters may potentially grow to be more open to the idea of extending high-capacity transit connections into the county from Atlanta and the I-285 Top End Perimeter corridor, particularly if the new Braves stadium generates the kind of congestion that is expected during home games.....But likely only if the transit agency constructing and operating the high-capacity transit lines is controlled and dominated by Northside Republican interests in Cobb, North Fulton (including Buckhead) and Gwinnett and NOT urban/southside Democratic/progressive interests in Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton counties.
I understand the frustrations of transit advocates like primaltech, but with Gwinnett County quickly approaching the 1 million inhabitant mark in the not-too-distant future (and being primed to likely become the state's most populous county as bu2 pointed out), Gwinnett likely needs more than just commuter rail service and Gwinnett needs more than just commuter rail service much sooner than in 20 years.
In addition to needing commuter rail service, a county as increasingly populous and as increasingly ultra-diverse as Gwinnett needs regional Heavy Rail Transit service and probably needed it at least 15 years ago around about the turn-of-the-millennium.
With a population that continues to diversify with increasingly large numbers of lower-income and transient residents continuing to migrate into an increasingly urban county (a county that at one time was one of the most homogenous counties in Georgia with a population that was 96% non-Hispanic white in 1980), outside of Clayton before it joined MARTA, Gwinnett increasingly seems to have the most to lose by not being connected to Atlanta with high-capacity passenger rail transit service.
Even though Gwinnett's political scene continues to be dominated by conservative transit-averse Republican voters for the time being, with a population that is currently only about 40% non-Hispanic white, Gwinnett's demographics continue to shift quickly and dramatically towards becoming a county dominated by transient minority residents.
Gwinnett needs a high-capacity transit connection to Atlanta to help keep the county's economy competitive and viable as the county continues to shift dramatically from the homogenous predominantly white and affluent outer-suburb/exurb it was in the past to the ultra-diverse and super-transient post-suburban/urban district that it is increasingly becoming.
As signaled by the recent move of NCR from Gwinnett County to near a MARTA stop in Midtown Atlanta (only a short time after moving to Gwinnett from Dayton, Ohio), as proximity to transit continues to grow in importance in the 21st Century marketplace a suburban county like Gwinnett risks not being able to lure (and retain) enough business to maintain the tax base it needs to support the needs of a fast-growing county where there is an increasingly high demand for services from an increasingly ultra-diverse and transient population.
Dramatic demographic shifts are also being experienced in Cobb County, though Cobb continues to have a population that is majority non-Hispanic white for the time being (non-Hispanic whites made up about just under 54% of Cobb's population in 2014, a figure that is down from 1980 when non-Hispanic whites made up 94% of Cobb's population).
Because the demographics seem to be a bit more stable in Cobb with a slightly larger population of affluent residents and higher-income residences (that is more socially and politically entrenched in the county than in Gwinnett) and a slightly smaller transient population, Cobb is not necessarily as much at risk as Gwinnett seems to be if it does not gain a high-capacity transit connection to Atlanta in the not-too-distant future.....But make no mistake: intending to go without a high-capacity transit connection to Atlanta should not be (and cannot be) a long-term transportation policy in Cobb County.
With income and poverty demographics that are not much more impressive than its Northeast metro suburban counterpart in Gwinnett, Cobb County potentially could eventually put itself at risk of harming its economy and its quality-of-life by embracing a high-capacity transit connection between it (a county of more than 741,000 residents) and Atlanta.
Along with a continuing unquenchable thirst for real estate profits from TOD/transit-oriented development by metro Atlanta's domineering cabal of real estate developers, the continuing dramatic rise of transiency and poverty rates in once-homogenous affluent suburban areas like Gwinnett and Cobb is likely also one of the major reasons why we are seeing and hearing increasing talk of the state intervening to engineer a regional transit solution on behalf of heavily populated Northside suburban areas like Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett.
The growing threat of politically dominant (but currently transit-poor) Northside suburban areas like Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett being at an increasing economic disadvantage to ITP/urban core areas with transit service in an increasingly transit-oriented 21st Century marketplace also may be one of the major reasons for the increasing talk of state intervention for a regional transit solution on behalf of the Northside.
I guess, like I've mentioned before, my (naive) hope is that Gwinnett will decide to join MARTA, and then Cobb will see the ridiculousness of Buford/Dacula/Grayson having MARTA, but not ITP Cumberland/Vinings, Marietta, the freakin' Atlanta Braves. And maybe they will then look at joining up. Maybe. Because Cobb and Gwinnett seem to be always in a kind of competition, watching the other and trying to out-do the other.
Then the other big possible variable, is whatever comes out of this study commission currently underway, and what happens with that. As well as a possible Casey Cagle governorship.
I guess, like I've mentioned before, my (naive) hope is that Gwinnett will decide to join MARTA, and then Cobb will see the ridiculousness of Buford/Dacula/Grayson having MARTA, but not ITP Cumberland/Vinings, Marietta, the freakin' Atlanta Braves. And maybe they will then look at joining up. Maybe. Because Cobb and Gwinnett seem to be always in a kind of competition, watching the other and trying to out-do the other.
Then the other big possible variable, is whatever comes out of this study commission currently underway, and what happens with that. As well as a possible Casey Cagle governorship.
Yeah, that admittedly is pretty naïve to think that suburban counties that continue to be dominated by conservative transit-averse Republican voters (like Gwinnett and Cobb) will want to join an urban progressive-dominated MARTA.....Especially as long as those counties continue to be dominated by the same transit-averse voters who have repeatedly rejected MARTA membership in the past.
With the massive demographic shifts underway in the county, Gwinnett conceivably could be closer to approving a MARTA referendum than Cobb, which is also undergoing massive demographic change but is not as far along in its demographic changes as is Gwinnett.
But both Gwinnett and Cobb still have very strong anti-transit dominated Republican political apparatuses in charge at the moment, though the anti-transit dominated GOP apparatus is much more deeply rooted in Cobb than in Gwinnett.
The souring of the conservative Cobb voting public on the new Braves' stadium most likely also does not help the case for improved transit there for the time being.
Cobb's deeply fiscally conservative voters are increasingly pi$$ed off over the $400 million public funding setup for the new Braves' stadium and are in no mood to consider voting to tax themselves to join an urban transit agency that they continue to very strongly dislike in MARTA.
One of the major reasons why high-capacity transit continues to be a hard sell in heavily-populated counties like Gwinnett and Cobb is because of the continued extreme weakness of the Democratic Party apparatus in Georgia.
In Cobb County you have a population that is over 46% minority and in Gwinnett County you have a population that is 60% minority and in both counties (except for control of a handful of minority-dominated precincts in the southern third of both counties) there basically is very little of an active Democratic Party presence.
Despite the increasingly favorable demographics in both Gwinnett and Cobb and other metro Atlanta counties, the Democratic Party makes virtually absolutely no effort to raise money, recruit new voters and grow the party and the progressive movement from the tens-of-thousands of moderate, progressive and minority newcomers that move into those and other metro Atlanta counties each year.
The blight of the Democratic Party in a metro Atlanta-powered fast-growing state of Georgia is a disgrace for which DPG (Democratic Party of Georgia) leaders should be completely embarrassed and even ashamed.....And they likely would be embarrassed and ashamed if they weren't too busy 'leading' a party that continues to be in complete disarray both here in Georgia and throughout much of the rest of the country outside of a dwindling handful of blue states on the West Coast, Upper Midwest and in the Northeast.
The total weakness of the Democratic Party apparatus in Georgia means multimodal transportation planning and funding must be left completely to a Republican Party apparatus whose (often increasingly demented and sociopathic) base of voters hate funding transportation, ESPECIALLY a mode of transportation that they absolutely abhor in transit.
If a conservative exurban Republican like Casey Cagle does not push the issue of expanding transit to the places it is needed in the Atlanta/North Georgia region, it just simply won't get done.....That's because the state's progressive party (the Democratic Party) can't even find its own a** at the moment, even with two hands, a flashlight, a map and a mirror.
"MARTA’s Board of Directors unanimously approved a fiscal 2017 budget Thursday that holds the line on bus and rail fares for the fifth year in a row.
Not only will MARTA keep the base fare at $2.50. The system soon will introduce an initiative to reduce the cost of a monthly pass through an arrangement with MARTA’s corporate partners, MARTA General Manager and CEO Keith Parker said..."
One of the interesting tid-bits at tonights MARTA expansion meeting: They are working on adding scanners to all the stations so you will be able to buy fares on your smartphone or venues / festivals could include free MARTA fare as part of their ticket.
One of the interesting tid-bits at tonights MARTA expansion meeting: They are working on adding scanners to all the stations so you will be able to buy fares on your smartphone or venues / festivals could include free MARTA fare as part of their ticket.
Which is an awesome idea. For that day, or for the weekend of an event, your badge has a 3 day MARTA pass on it. Like... Dragoncon, or sporting events, or maybe even hotel room keys (though NFC) might be better for that.
One of the interesting tid-bits at tonights MARTA expansion meeting: They are working on adding scanners to all the stations so you will be able to buy fares on your smartphone or venues / festivals could include free MARTA fare as part of their ticket.
I loved that idea. I just loved what they presented tonight! Seeing all the transit projects together, plus the complete streets, greenways, multi-use trails is almost overwhelming. I am almost concerned they are presenting too much.
If.... IF these two taxes are approved, Atlanta's future is going to be radically altered.
One of the interesting tid-bits at tonights MARTA expansion meeting: They are working on adding scanners to all the stations so you will be able to buy fares on your smartphone or venues / festivals could include free MARTA fare as part of their ticket.
Nice !
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