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Old 07-15-2015, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,678,624 times
Reputation: 4368

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
The school district ran by a different, independently elected board than the county commission, so what does that have to do with the Gwinnett County Commission. Best ran government, that's debatable considering they have just as many commissioners that have wind up in prison as Dekalb County. Finally, who said this is the City of Atlanta residents pushing this? Nobody, so you might want to look at whom is pushing this...Gwinnett County residents and commuters. You are bloviating about nothing because Gwinnett is basically a slightly condensed version of suburban sprawl with a few town centers.
Sounds like someone is really 'out of touch' with Gwinnett county in General.... and it isn't the elected officials.
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Old 07-15-2015, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,509 posts, read 1,624,109 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Sounds like someone is really 'out of touch' with Gwinnett county in General.... and it isn't the elected officials.
Uh, nice try, but you are wrong. That's a pretty accurate description of the place, its residents, and its governmental make up. It was nice try to cape for somebody else's delusion and bias tho...
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Old 07-15-2015, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,678,624 times
Reputation: 4368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Uh, nice try, but you are wrong. That's a pretty accurate description of the place, its residents, and its governmental make up. It was nice try to cape for somebody else's delusion and bias tho...
Yet somehow it is the second most populace county around here and it isn't too far behind the most populace. It also has more retail sales than any county in Georgia.

It isn't the quiet commuter county you make it out to be. It actually has about as many jobs as there are workers and it has had the lowest unemployment rate in the region.

Maybe it isn't your cup of tea and that is fine, but you're underselling it big time.

The day to day county management is impeccable.

It has the largest county maintained road system in the state.
It has the largest public school system in the state by over an additional 60k students from the 2nd. With all that extra responsibility it still won the nationally recognized Broad Prize twice and was specifically recognized for their ability to close gaps with minority and low-income students.
According to US news it has about a quarter of the state's top 50 high schools, including its #1 pick.
It has a nationally award winning park system that is more heavily invested into, than any other in the region.
Perhaps our libraries need some touching up, because it hasn't won nationally recognized Library Journal's Library of the Year since 2000.
The water system is very well maintained, forward thinking and has won several awards for its high efficiency and environmental friendliness. In fact there was just an article in the AJC yesterday discussing how industry research for water treatment is being attracted to Gwinnett from how advance the plants are, particularly the Wayne Hill treatment plant.
It is also the most diverse county in the region and state.
It has a very large forward thinking county-wide recycling program with its trash pickup.


And it has done all of this maintaining a AAA bond rating.

Gwinnett seems to be proactively in-touch with its citizens needs.

I'm not sure what to tell you, but that sounds really well managed to me when it comes to where it counts, but I guess all its successes are just a delusion.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,509 posts, read 1,624,109 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Yet somehow it is the second most populace county around here and it isn't too far behind the most populace. It also has more retail sales than any county in Georgia.

It isn't the quiet commuter county you make it out to be. It actually has about as many jobs as there are workers and it has had the lowest unemployment rate in the region.

Maybe it isn't your cup of tea and that is fine, but you're underselling it big time.

The day to day county management is impeccable.

It has the largest county maintained road system in the state.
It has the largest public school system in the state by over an additional 60k students from the 2nd. With all that extra responsibility it still won the nationally recognized Broad Prize twice and was specifically recognized for their ability to close gaps with minority and low-income students.
According to US news it has about a quarter of the state's top 50 high schools, including its #1 pick.
It has a nationally award winning park system that is more heavily invested into, than any other in the region.
Perhaps our libraries need some touching up, because it hasn't won nationally recognized Library Journal's Library of the Year since 2000.
The water system is very well maintained, forward thinking and has won several awards for its high efficiency and environmental friendliness. In fact there was just an article in the AJC yesterday discussing how industry research for water treatment is being attracted to Gwinnett from how advance the plants are, particularly the Wayne Hill treatment plant.
It is also the most diverse county in the region and state.
It has a very large forward thinking county-wide recycling program with its trash pickup.


And it has done all of this maintaining a AAA bond rating.

Gwinnett seems to be proactively in-touch with its citizens needs.

I'm not sure what to tell you, but that sounds really well managed to me when it comes to where it counts, but I guess all its successes are just a delusion.
That is a non-sequitur to the issue. The day-to-day operations of a lot of governments here in Georgia and in other states are run well because they have either good or efficient governmental operations management. However, the elected officials are blocking or refusing to hold a referendum after numerous calls by citizens to allow them to decide for themselves that they would like to a part of a regional mass transit system then that is out-of-touch. I've worked in various governmental entities in different places and states, so I know what a well-run government looks like, but if the citizens are requesting something and the elected officials refuse to allow it then there is a "in-touch-with-the-community" problem.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:04 AM
bu2
 
10,034 posts, read 6,448,118 times
Reputation: 4170
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Sounds like someone is really 'out of touch' with Gwinnett county in General.... and it isn't the elected officials.
Also out of touch with the thread, completely missing the point on a lot of this.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:10 AM
bu2
 
10,034 posts, read 6,448,118 times
Reputation: 4170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
That is a non-sequitur to the issue. The day-to-day operations of a lot of governments here in Georgia and in other states are run well because they have either good or efficient governmental operations management. However, the elected officials are blocking or refusing to hold a referendum after numerous calls by citizens to allow them to decide for themselves that they would like to a part of a regional mass transit system then that is out-of-touch. I've worked in various governmental entities in different places and states, so I know what a well-run government looks like, but if the citizens are requesting something and the elected officials refuse to allow it then there is a "in-touch-with-the-community" problem.
Where's this massive drive to have a referendum?

Mostly it seems to come from Atlanta.

There has been a survey that showed favor for it.

But mostly, you should read the thread before making comments like this. This isn't 100 pages long. CW made some very good points addressing what you are discussing.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,509 posts, read 1,624,109 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Where's this massive drive to have a referendum?

Mostly it seems to come from Atlanta.

There has been a survey that showed favor for it.

But mostly, you should read the thread before making comments like this. This isn't 100 pages long. CW made some very good points addressing what you are discussing.
Ok...I read the thread, so there is no point is rehashing already reiterated comments. The survey is of the residents of Gwinnett County and they support a vote, but elected leadership doesn't want to hold a referendum. Case closed.
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Old 07-16-2015, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,678,624 times
Reputation: 4368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Ok...I read the thread, so there is no point is rehashing already reiterated comments. The survey is of the residents of Gwinnett County and they support a vote, but elected leadership doesn't want to hold a referendum. Case closed.
Be careful.

You're making alot of reactive mistakes. First and foremost you've made sweeping comments about a whole county and its government on what amounts to essentially just one issue, a divisive one. Many of the others you're failing to see or address at this point.

Secondly, this isn't as white and black as you're making it to be either.
If an actual vote was held in Gwinnett today, the reality is it would be a very close vote. especially as many more details would be nitpicked. The polling at local levels doesn't work as well. This issue in recent history has polled far better than it was voted on and that vote was non-binding, which means someone might more readily vote yes when they still harbor some concerns over unknown details. Many of which I have tried to address earlier in this thread.

If this is rushed to a vote today and it fails. In all likeliness that will put the issue to rest for the near future. Probably at least 5 years, if not 7 or 8 years. Timing is key.

Overall though, the county is extremely well managed and most of its leaders are in touch with their constituency.

And while less important to the discussion we are having, let's not forget the context of this article. This is caused from a developer wanting public investment on the table before he redevelops a site. He isn't looking out for Gwinnettians, as much as he is trying to maximize value of his holdings at the right time.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,509 posts, read 1,624,109 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Be careful.

You're making alot of reactive mistakes. First and foremost you've made sweeping comments about a whole county and its government on what amounts to essentially just one issue, a divisive one. Many of the others you're failing to see or address at this point.

Secondly, this isn't as white and black as you're making it to be either.
If an actual vote was held in Gwinnett today, the reality is it would be a very close vote. especially as many more details would be nitpicked. The polling at local levels doesn't work as well. This issue in recent history has polled far better than it was voted on and that vote was non-binding, which means someone might more readily vote yes when they still harbor some concerns over unknown details. Many of which I have tried to address earlier in this thread.

If this is rushed to a vote today and it fails. In all likeliness that will put the issue to rest for the near future. Probably at least 5 years, if not 7 or 8 years. Timing is key.

Overall though, the county is extremely well managed and most of its leaders are in touch with their constituency.

And while less important to the discussion we are having, let's not forget the context of this article. This is caused from a developer wanting public investment on the table before he redevelops a site. He isn't looking out for Gwinnettians, as much as he is trying to maximize value of his holdings at the right time.


Sweeping accusations? Nope. Pointing out the obvious about the disconnect between the elected officials and the constituency requesting a vote. Yep. The school board, the day-to-day operations of the county government, and the extensive park system has nothing to do with this topic. Those diversionary and red herrings to this conversation. No, you are overanalyzing something that quite simple.

You need to take a step back and realize that something as obvious as this and attempt over-complicate by explaining bad leadership on the Gwinnett County Commission only causes more tension, derision, confusion, and even more division as a result. I can discern what is going on quick well, but it's obvious you attempting to defend something that if it passes then it passes and if fails then it fails. Overanalyzing is one of the many shortcomings of many in government, on this board, and real life. It's the body politic, and just like many other areas this place has it problems and flaws...
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Old 07-16-2015, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,678,624 times
Reputation: 4368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Sweeping accusations? Nope. Pointing out the obvious about the disconnect between the elected officials and the constituency requesting a vote. Yep. The school board, the day-to-day operations of the county government, and the extensive park system has nothing to do with this topic. Those diversionary and red herrings to this conversation. No, you are overanalyzing something that quite simple.

You need to take a step back and realize that something as obvious as this and attempt over-complicate by explaining bad leadership on the Gwinnett County Commission only causes more tension, derision, confusion, and even more division as a result. I can discern what is going on quick well, but it's obvious you attempting to defend something that if it passes then it passes and if fails then it fails. Overanalyzing is one of the many shortcomings of many in government, on this board, and real life. It's the body politic, and just like many other areas this place has it problems and flaws...
Yet I live here and all those suppose tension doesn't seem to exist.

And yes, you questioned how well Gwinnett county was managed overall and questioned how much the leadership connected to their constituency's interest over a mere single issue that would easily be a divisive one.

These items above have EVERYTHING to do with the topic of how well Gwinnett's leaders are in touch with their constituencies.If you think otherwise, you're blind.... or perhaps trying to argue your way out of this. Get a shovel if you want to keep digging.
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